Yakut Shuffle: questions, ideas, criticism Options

[Tias]

That's a great idea. After new years I have more time to write, and I'm still up for helping you. I just got hold of Shadows of Asia and the 6th World Almanac, should be able to find some pointers, there.

[Fatum]

Did a write up of a few Russian cities.

[NeoJudas]

Okay... read up on *EVERYTHING* you have worked on here. I must say, I like it, and I appreciate what I know we will be taking into our games here. If I may, allow me to drop some stuff in here as well as a beginning explanation as to why I am so interested here in your project.

History

In the HHH Games, from the very outset, I had convinced the GM at the time (more of a PG/Munchkin than ever I was) to let me have a Hermetic Magician/Shapeshifter Tiger back in First Ed about a month after the SR games release. He agreed. The history of Shivowtnoeh then kickstarted.

His father was one of the founding critters involved in the war. A Siberian Shaper himself who had escaped from captors earlier on in Eastern Russia/CIS. Shiv's mother had remained a mystery for a very long time, and wasn't fully unveiled until two years ago in real time. Yes, a great secret kept for 18+ years of gaming. Anyway, Shiv was raised by his mother for the first six months. After that, he was with his father on the various raiding parties, originally as a go-getter (think waterboy on steroids), then later as an active part of the AS/Yakut forces. His temper shaped into his first few spells, almost all of which were combat-related of course.

fast-forward many years. As things changed speeds, "Russia" was forced to focus on more and more events happening along the TS-Railroad, Vladivostok (in order to keep it economically with the ever-present threat of economic take-over from the megas), and the changes wrought all across Eastern Europe/West-Central Eurasia. Shiv was told to leave his homeland and go establish a new life and to act as a foothold, a "Landmark", in the PacNorWest, keeping an eye out for other shapers of any species and help them connect with more of their spiritual kin. In our games, we did not concentrate nearly as heavily as your recent works Fatima with regards to the military sides. We simply let things slide for a while letting rumors and FASA/FP/CGL just continue to sorta ignore it all.

Now recently, Shiv has decided to move back home. A few companions he has had in Seattle for his many runner years (51-74) have relocated with him and they have returned to Vlad-City. They are now working on establishing themselves anew. Taking time, finding and redoing contacts throughout the City and the region(s) beyond. It's been a literally "restart" of the games to a medium extent.

Anyway, Fast and Brutally Short History lesson over....

[NeoJudas]

Background from Our View

First of all, we borrowed an idea created by the NAN-2 Book regarding the TPA formation and the bear shaman who established the communications grid across the polar regions using watchers and related spirits. We then, instead of approaching things from a military hardware and ground-war POV, we approached things by pulling out content from the Paracritter sections of various books. The Russians, ESPECIALLY the Yakutians/Siberians have an immense mystical heritage to pull from.

Whomever it was in FASA who made up Vernya (probably Down and Findley having an over-a-beer conspiracy) accidentally created everything else. I say that because Vernya remained the one Free Spirit/Being to never be seen by anyone of the outside of world. During our initial years of gaming (back in the dorms of Purdue), we had several friends whom were exchange students from Vladivostok and Sapphoro (Northern Japan). They helped fill in some gaps from their personal experiences of social and inter-social goings on. That is when I hit on the idea of exactly who was Shiv's mother. Shiv it turns out has a LOT of brothers and sisters.

Vernya, but not in a direct sense. Vernya has what we in 3rd and 4th ed would call lots of spirit pacts with (meta)humans throughout her lands, especially women. These pacts enable Vernya to all but guarantee any children the women have are shapers. The requirement is the women must mate with already existing shapers. Get about 6-10 of these women, and on average 2-4 children per three years (twins/triplets not being unheard of in the animal world or the human one), and you get some very specific reinforcements. Add to that any aspected background areas where shapers such as wolves, boars, elk, bears, eagles den/nest, and you can start to really influence some power base.

In our games, these "special children" became known as "the Landmarks". They served as watchers and facilitators for moving paranatural resources. They also were all linkable to Vernya herself, which would often have a two-way effect. Thus a "dream pact" situation is established between Vernya and her "special children".

Now insofar as power is considered, Vernya has to be massive. On a scale like Zebulon, Maelstrom or Oblivion as we know them now after the Storm Front release. We know that Shapers make up the behind-the scenes power players in Yakut now, which I find interesting in that the UN Recognition of Yakut can only happen if a sapient-recognized species is the formation of the primary government. Also consider Vernya cannot be alone. She/It would have massive connections to spirits throughout Yakut/Siberia, more than enough to exercise directed spiritual powers during any and/or all of the (ongoing) conflicts between the Yakutians and the Soviets. Conflicts and wars may be won in battle, but they are resourced by connections and networking.

[NeoJudas]

What Goes Bump in the Night

I saw and chuckled some at Tias remarks. Not in a demeaning way, but in a "yeah, our group has had those talks before too" kinda way.

If you look through the various paracritter/paraspecies sections of books the idea of "sentient weather" isn't all that unthinkable. Not a puritanian methodology of course, but from the POV that many spirits and spirit-like beings exist up there that do not meet the norms for elementals/spirits of the more commonly understood natures. With the introduction of Plant Spirits we begin to see how it could be possible to quite literally regenerate whole forests in very short periods of time (days vs. years).

We also began to realize that Yakut/Siberia has territories that could stand up to anyone, even the Yakutians themselves from time to time. I'm still not unconvinced that Vernya her/itself is not somehow linked to Tunguska and remarks that can be found regarding India, Mongolia and shadow-talks out of Harlequin. I also believe that the TPA keeps a very strong relationship going with Yakut/AS so that it can retain the now decades old communication lines open with their land-bound peoples around the Northern Polar region.

As for fighting a guerilla war in Yakut/AS... you folks are messed up. The jokes about "ewww... big scary forest." Well folks, forests are made up of large trees, rivers, rocks and encompass mountains quite often. Combine that with powers and spells related to Fear and Foreboding, and yeah ... it really is a "big scary forest" in a quite literal sense. And we're not talking normal AoE for spells here. We're talking roving powers originating from spirits who used to work by "domain" and paracritters like the Gloaming Owl. And if the Paralyzing Howl powers of barghests were there, in the form of Awakened Siberian Wolf packs ... well, things get hard to do in a moral based situation. Leadership and Training would be sorely taxed.

Now... something else that has occurred to me here is that the massive Taiga areas and the forests of Siberia are described in places as having backgrounds counts and aspected regions within them. I kept wondering how on earth you would manage to keep any area of that magnitude aspected AND monitored. The only way to do that is with a large network of awakened beings (spiritual and tangible) and a lot of spiritual backup. And then you just neutrally blanket the aspect ... in this case "to the benefit of the land" instead of "to the benefit of Vernya". You learn to work with the land instead of against it. Don't harm it, it won't retaliate kind of thing.

more later...

[Fatum]

I like the bit on shaper reproduction, mind if I steal it for the shadowtalk?

As for the forest being scary - well, sure, even mundane forests can be plenty scary; the thing is, going by the previously established fluff, Russian politicians are thinking in the XIX century terms of land and resource grabs, unlike the Yakut (so it's a conflict of worldviews as much as a conflict of armed force), so magic areas aside, it looks like it's all but impossible for the Yakut to win with conventional warfare. What Russia wants in the war is grabbing the mineral-rich regions (just like in RL towns other than at the southern end of Siberia are almost universally built around a particular mine), and I see very little in the Yakut arsenal that could prevent that, minding that they number four times less, are anti-technological, and have a civil war ongoing. Sure, the hostile spirits and the guerrilla fighters coming from the wild might cost the mining operations a few hundred soldiers a year, but since when does that matter for an authoritarian state or for the megacorps?

[NeoJudas]

I like the bit on shaper reproduction, mind if I steal it for the shadowtalk?

As for the forest being scary - well, sure, even mundane forests can be plenty scary; the thing is, going by the previously established fluff, Russian politicians are thinking in the XIX century terms of land and resource grabs, unlike the Yakut (so it's a conflict of worldviews as much as a conflict of armed force), so magic areas aside, it looks like it's all but impossible for the Yakut to win with conventional warfare. What Russia wants in the war is grabbing the mineral-rich regions (just like in RL towns other than at the southern end of Siberia are almost universally built around a particular mine), and I see very little in the Yakut arsenal that could prevent that, minding that they number four times less, are anti-technological, and have a civil war ongoing. Sure, the hostile spirits and the guerrilla fighters coming from the wild might cost the mining operations a few hundred soldiers a year, but since when does that matter for an authoritarian state or for the megacorps?

When the entire Russian Army can fall prey to Russian Winters. Weather Magic is not GGD level magic at all. Also recall there is a lightning-spewing dracoform running around the mountains in the eastern steppes harrassing jets as well (Target:SH?).

I'm not questioning the (meta)human to Paranormal numbers. What I'm saying is technological means are crap and have proven to be crap (until Blue 229 perhaps) when confronted with Weather Magics. I'm also pointing out that with the possible exception of Magadan, the Yakut seemed to have no real interest in the coastal regions for at least 100 or more kilometers (which is near standard ranges for the heavier embardments from naval cannon of a non-missile nature). Missiles (cruise and otherwise) also travel a lot less speeds which gives the Yakut forces more time to respond.

I also would point out that not all of the Yakutian forces are paranorms of that magnitude, and many are (meta)human varieties as well. A lot of the older tribal claims are still in effect in the late 20th/earlyl 21st century now stretching from V-City Northwards through Siberia and Westwards to the Great Eurasian Plains. The earlier SR manifestations have spoken of smugglers using the Mammoth's as pull animals. Okay... I used to laugh, until I realized something the size of an Indian Elephant had movement power and could work in teams and wouldn't sink into the muck the way Russian Tanks and Half-Tracks would (forget wheeled vehicles). Hovercraft (where possible), VT Craft and VSTOL aircraft were certainly the only way to rapidly deploy forces at any distance.

And that is the one thing that part of the world is in no short supply of. Distances. And when rail lines are so readily "reclaimed by nature" (don't get me started with plant growth and/or freeze water/shape ice spellcraft). Several years ago, the other primary GM and myself ran a series of tests using anything we could find out of the Janes guides combined with numerics of what was then 3rd ed mechanics and numbers. We specifically ignore the "Quake" power because it is without question the most broken spiritual power in the games in our opinions. Small Yakutian Forces could regularly wreak terrible havoc on military units 2-5 times their size. If one decent Yakutian magician (spirit of not) with a "Destroy Firearms" or "Destroy Heavy Weapons" or "Destroy Ammunition" spell and the game goes completely the other way. Unless surprise was somehow obtained, the Yakutians would win every time due to stupid shit like high frequency engine noises, engine exhaust, petro-chem fuels ... or just (meta)human stench. And since spiritual concealment power(s) and guard do not work against the vehicles with the same flexibility that they do living (para)critters, the russian mages were simply stretched to cover things too far.

The one kink in the road was getting anything truly solid on (meta)human numbers. "Pink Flight" (as described in the NAN books) occurred in Yakut/AS as well, but not with the same intensities as north america. I also could find little information on the (in)famous Russian "Cities not on a Map". I could track down maybe 6 of them (out of a rumored 22 or so), but none of them were larger than 50K inhabitants at the height of the cold war. And as of 2010, there were perhaps 3 remaining and they were all deeply inside what is solid Soviet/Russian territory along the Arctic Coast. I also noticed that the city of Yakutsk was so friggin far away from literally everything, that the highways and railways (none of which would qualify for an american interstate btw) were so readily cut off that it brought back historical flashbacks to the WWII invasion by Germany and how the Russians just closed the doors, gated the city, and waited them out getting only the occasional air drop of supplies from allied forces.

Guerilla Warfare is what the Yakutians/AS would likely go for, sure. But I'm sure that every so often things would get very "Wild". Having literally a super-pack of 100+ wolves (shapers and otherwise) accompanied by eagles, hawks, thunderbirds and lesser rocs being backed up by the bears and tigers ... mixed thoroughly with perhaps 100+ (meta)humans allies ... yeah, even a large soviet regiment is screwed.

But, lots of hypotheticals in here I realize as well.

[Fatum]

When the entire Russian Army can fall prey to Russian Winters. Weather Magic is not GGD level magic at all. Also recall there is a lightning-spewing dracoform running around the mountains in the eastern steppes harrassing jets as well (Target:SH?).

You know, this bit I've never gotten. Modern-day jets are all-weather machines. They might not be able to fly through a full-blown tornado, but a storm matters little to them. Minding that Feuerschwinge was downed by a couple of jet wings, how are dracoforms a threat to outnumbering jets?
As for the entire army falling prey to weather - seriously, with 2070s transport aviation?

I'm not questioning the (meta)human to Paranormal numbers. What I'm saying is technological means are crap and have proven to be crap (until Blue 229 perhaps) when confronted with Weather Magics. I'm also pointing out that with the possible exception of Magadan, the Yakut seemed to have no real interest in the coastal regions for at least 100 or more kilometers (which is near standard ranges for the heavier embardments from naval cannon of a non-missile nature). Missiles (cruise and otherwise) also travel a lot less speeds which gives the Yakut forces more time to respond.

I believe most SR cruise missiles are hypersonic, but yeah, sure. Still, what do they have against those missiles raining down upon each of their town and villages? I've devised a spell covering from satellite surveillance, but any cruise missile with decent Pilot should be able to find the target metahuman buildings even in a rather large area protected from overhead observation.

The earlier SR manifestations have spoken of smugglers using the Mammoth's as pull animals. Okay... I used to laugh, until I realized something the size of an Indian Elephant had movement power and could work in teams

Yeah, mammoth stats are in Running Wild for 4E; I believe I've included write-ups for those. Still, a mammoth is not exactly a tank or even a heavy IFV in what comes to armouring and weaponry.

and wouldn't sink into the muck the way Russian Tanks and Half-Tracks would (forget wheeled vehicles). Hovercraft (where possible), VT Craft and VSTOL aircraft were certainly the only way to rapidly deploy forces at any distance.

Not all of Siberia is swamps, and the dry parts are traversable by wheeled vehicles. Still, judging by the fact that tracked vehicles are used in RL Siberia, including the swampy areas of the forests and the tundra, I kinda doubt the tanks are all that doomed. (Actually, there's even a Russian saying "Tanks are not afraid of dirt", meaning that the problems encountered are insignificant next to the effort put).

And that is the one thing that part of the world is in no short supply of. Distances.

Yes, but even now a VDV division can be deployed anywhere in Siberia in half a dozen hours, with armour, artillery and all the good jazz. Distances don't matter all that much with planes, hydrofoil ships and LAVs.

If one decent Yakutian magician (spirit of not) with a "Destroy Firearms" or "Destroy Heavy Weapons" or "Destroy Ammunition" spell and the game goes completely the other way. Unless surprise was somehow obtained, the Yakutians would win every time due to stupid shit like high frequency engine noises, engine exhaust, petro-chem fuels ... or just (meta)human stench. And since spiritual concealment power(s) and guard do not work against the vehicles with the same flexibility that they do living (para)critters, the russian mages were simply stretched to cover things too far.

How is counterspelling not an option against the usual area-effect spells (also, I presume you were using Demolish [Object] and Sludge [Object] spells from Street Magic?) Besides, getting to an established military based equipped with sensor suites and spirit guardians can be a rather dangerous endeavour, so I wouldn't could on the Yakut cutting it without losses.

I also could find little information on the (in)famous Russian "Cities not on a Map". I could track down maybe 6 of them (out of a rumored 22 or so), but none of them were larger than 50K inhabitants at the height of the cold war. And as of 2010, there were perhaps 3 remaining and they were all deeply inside what is solid Soviet/Russian territory along the Arctic Coast.

Those were all opened under the DRA government in SR timeline. Also, their population numbers were always included in the census data (at least judging by the Soviet precedent).

I also noticed that the city of Yakutsk was so friggin far away from literally everything, that the highways and railways (none of which would qualify for an american interstate btw) were so readily cut off that it brought back historical flashbacks to the WWII invasion by Germany and how the Russians just closed the doors, gated the city, and waited them out getting only the occasional air drop of supplies from allied forces.

I'd say that Russia doesn't have too many roads that'd qualify as interstate highways even between the major cities, if only thanks to the climate.
As for the cutting of the roads - well, that's absolutely not how the Eastern Front battles went. An exemplary operation with a solid concentrated force locked in a city, encircled and supplied by aviation was the Catastrophe of the Sixth Army in Stalingrad, and it cost both Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe very dearly.

Guerilla Warfare is what the Yakutians/AS would likely go for, sure. But I'm sure that every so often things would get very "Wild". Having literally a super-pack of 100+ wolves (shapers and otherwise) accompanied by eagles, hawks, thunderbirds and lesser rocs being backed up by the bears and tigers ... mixed thoroughly with perhaps 100+ (meta)humans allies ... yeah, even a large soviet regiment is screwed.

The thing is, what do they have against tanks, heavy artillery and aircraft support? A single heavy howitzer salvo wipes any known position clear; so they still have to count on stealth, surprise strikes and going into hiding again. All the while, with drones, sats, spirits and astral space mages all providing recon info getting into fighting range covertly does not appear to be banal.

[NeoJudas]

And herein lie the crux of the point. I have already conceded numbers. But I'm not talking "mundane weather". I'm also talking not standard mud. I'm talking mud augmented by spiritual power. I'm talking "Guard" power does not cover vehicles with the same propensity that it does (para)critters and (meta)humans.

You are talking about tons of first-rate, cutting-edge, tactical jets and related LAV fighters ... and I'm only going to say one thing (extreme example or not)... Ghostwalker. Everyone I know said all the same counters to the arguments that you have given to the entire thing. You are consistently falling back on the technological advantage(s) that the Russo-Soviets will have over the Yakutians. I'm trying to consistently point out that the game history of Shadowrun has multiple times specifically shot down the technological advantage(s) when confront with "equal cutting edge" magic.

Of course I know the Russo-Soviets have their mages and spirits. But in these numbers is where the Yakutians/AS forces beat the ever living tar out of them. Their have them beat on numbers and back-up. Background Counts of many areas are also in their favor. If I've got a count of +1 then my spell force 4's are now 5's. My magicians all went from Attrib 6 to Attrib 7. Oh, and all yours just went into reverse. My magical examples just re-shifted the balance against your stunningly advanced technology.

I also never once said I was raiding Russo-Soviet facilities or bases. On the contrary. Stay inside them. The Yakutians really don't give a second rate crap on that,. save where perhaps any toxins might leak out. Everything else has to come and go from those bases.

Now as for Motivating Factors ...

The Russians want the money-making resources. Even Vladimir Putin only does something today based on net gain, be it image, resource or final win. This hasn't changed, and is probably a really damn good example of Corporate-Governmental mindset to use for the SR universe. They want the Uranium and Plutonium mining access. And in all but a few examples, I've actually been seeing where the megas are already in Yakut making deals for that access. Now behold, I give you a new issue. A Mega with an exclusive right to one particular mine (for example) and an entire nation outside that facility that keeps watch. The Mega has more money than the Russian government in the time of Shadowrun. They'll sell the Russians what they want, the Russians don't have to invade, the Yakuktians get some kickbacks here and there and no conflict with the Russians (as a general rule, not an exceptional one).

The sole exception to this argumentative debate seems to be centered around the Saban Zaga forces, of which they have never been given any sizable details. I would have written those guys up a LONG time ago if I had been given any say, if for no other reason to figure out just what the hell they do/don't have to some extent. As it stands, the Vory are bigger than they are, and the Vory are said to be less than a quarter million in number world-wide. And I seem to recall early edition notes on the SZ forces being a lot of ex-russo military types and a mixture of disgruntled/displaced dissidents from within the Yakut/AS territories.

We could also then discuss the Wizard of Olkon Island. There's an anomaly that is against the Yakut/AS forces and aligned with the SZ forces. What's he got that can balance things out the way s/he/it seems to be able to?

I mentioned it before, we went spec for spec now for over 10, not quite 15 years on this subject. And we constantly find outselves at a very interesting crux to the discussion.

Too many unknowns.

It's obvious the Russian Military does *NOT* have the power to take the lands back or they'd have done it by now. Waiting their time isn't good for them. Large hardware ages badly. And the Yakutian/AS forces still retain their ties to the TPA and NAN as well as the likelihood to other awakened nations (some of which are doing badly as of the Storm Front timeline). The Russian Navy is now primarily in the hands/resources of yamatetsu-NT, a subsidiary of Evo Corporation. I think Buttercup likely has communication channels with the awakened forces in order to allow for things to remain at a benefit to her and her corporation ... or at the very least give her and hers a faster channel of response should major changes to the balance of power occur.

Which brings me to Kamchatka

[NeoJudas]

The Peninsula, or "A Broken Tip of the Mainland Spear"

When we read about the earthquake the carved a channel between the majority of the peninsula and the mainland, we all said "MAGICAL BIGSHIT". Demolition capacity of that magnitude exceeds that which was needed to create the first Panama Canal, and has a LOT FARTHER to trench (90 kilometers for Kamchatka vs. 65 for Panama, when done as the crow flies).

We started to really question what that was all about. We started asking things such as what was on the Peninsula especially in lue of a pink-flight scenario and/or potential naval installations for anyone, russians or otherwise. The number of active volcanoes basically shot down most of the ideas. So we were left thinking of what was useful and valuable there. The answer was simple.

The same volcanoes.

The amount and access to such potential raw material from the earth was simply too vast. It had to be made accessible to everyone, or at least limited access for a few. *IF* the land bridge existed, then it was very likely the original etheric environment allowed for Vernya and her related terrestrial forces to reach the peninsula too easily and gain/gather/project too much power. Someone, or something, interceded. Hence, we looked at who or what could do that. The answers were few and far between.

GGD Magic ... lots of astral scarring, lots of sacrifice, too many people gone to be involved. Remember that a GGD is *VOLUNTEERS* to the Dance. Non Willing Dancers don't count and their sacrifice taints the magic.

Next up... and the far more likely choice. Great Dragons. We know that Kamchatka sits on the Ring of Fire, and now with the parageology book out (the ley line map was needed 10+ years ago IMO), we see that forces aligned to Ryumyo and/or Lung would likely interfere in order to ensure their ability to have at least equal access to the Kamchatka region.

Other options ... something that cause an earthquake of that magnitude with that kind of an otherwise obvious outcome? The only spirit power we outlawed during our combat theory games. Quake. 6, Force 12 spirits of great form with Quake could readily create a rift of that magnitude, especially if they were called upon from the Kamchatka territory nearer the volcanoes to the south. Thsi at least meant we had options like megacorporations, major magical organizations (IOND, Atlantean Foundation, Black Lodge, etc...).

The most likely entrants to this in our opinion were actions taken by one of the Great Dragons. It made the most sense, and given Geomancy of a Great Dragon level, it made very serious sense. It was also perhaps one of the few powers that Veryna could not readily counter magically speaking.

If we were to utilize items from the DoA games, then a great ritual could also probably pull that off. Wow, what a thought. But now we are without question starting to enter the level of magical warfare/firepower that Aztlan and Amazonia amassed and utilized against one another for all those years. No offense, that just sounds lame, annoying and not fitting of the situation in the Russ0-Asian territories. That stories been done before... I'd rather see and play out something with a different flavor entirely, ya know?

And I'm the guy who likes magic.

[NeoJudas]

The thing is, what do they have against tanks, heavy artillery and aircraft support? A single heavy howitzer salvo wipes any known position clear; so they still have to count on stealth, surprise strikes and going into hiding again. All the while, with drones, sats, spirits and astral space mages all providing recon info getting into fighting range covertly does not appear to be banal.

This is the one particular post I wanted to point out to you. Have you ever considered rewriting "Fling"? Serioius here. We have a mage that used the 4th ed version (unaltered) the other day for the first time EVER and the group nearly passed out. He was doing damage in excess of an assault cannot, more accurate than anyone with heavy weapons/gunnery could match, and instead of Flinging Rocks started Flinging Grenades.

He pulled a clip of his ammo out of his gun, AV stuff, and proceeded to use that as the "missiles" he'd Fling. Combat Helicopters were toast.

Someone started to hand him a "Grenade Spell" ... mercifully the other side stopped fighting before we got into that game mechanic headache. It was also before my character (who has a better spellcasting pool to draw upon) starting casting two Flings at a single target simultaneously.

[Fatum]

And herein lie the crux of the point. I have already conceded numbers. But I'm not talking "mundane weather". I'm also talking not standard mud. I'm talking mud augmented by spiritual power. I'm talking "Guard" power does not cover vehicles with the same propensity that it does (para)critters and (meta)humans.

And why exactly wouldn't it?

You are talking about tons of first-rate, cutting-edge, tactical jets and related LAV fighters ... and I'm only going to say one thing (extreme example or not)... Ghostwalker.

Well, Fueurschwinge? Besides, even Boorezmey is not a Great dragon.

You are consistently falling back on the technological advantage(s) that the Russo-Soviets will have over the Yakutians. I'm trying to consistently point out that the game history of Shadowrun has multiple times specifically shot down the technological advantage(s) when confront with "equal cutting edge" magic.

Not that it has ever done so believably. Great Ghost Dance terror tactics? That, I can believe to be an effective tool. Direct fight? Nah, cut me some slack - just see the rules to see that a mage is a powerful asset, but not on par with a jet.

Of course I know the Russo-Soviets have their mages and spirits. But in these numbers is where the Yakutians/AS forces beat the ever living tar out of them. Their have them beat on numbers and back-up.

Uh, you notice that Russia (dunno why you keep referring to it as Soviet when it was last Soviet some 80 years ago) has almost ten times the population, going with SoA?
Again, mages and spirits are powerful, but they're not be-all end-all tool in a war. For a simple example: even if you only have a single mage, you are still perfectly capable of detecting an ambush from the Astral and clearing it with artillery.

Background Counts of many areas are also in their favor. If I've got a count of +1 then my spell force 4's are now 5's. My magicians all went from Attrib 6 to Attrib 7. Oh, and all yours just went into reverse. My magical examples just re-shifted the balance against your stunningly advanced technology.

That is a valid point, just like the area around Baikal gives the Sagan Zaba rebels noticeable leverage. I guess that could be fixed with mana lines manipulation, but that's a large task (that makes for a few plot hooks).

I also never once said I was raiding Russo-Soviet facilities or bases. On the contrary. Stay inside them. The Yakutians really don't give a second rate crap on that,. save where perhaps any toxins might leak out. Everything else has to come and go from those bases.

And? Attacking military convoys is far from the safest businesses on the Earth still. Better than military bases, but still.

The Russians want the money-making resources. Even Vladimir Putin only does something today based on net gain, be it image, resource or final win. This hasn't changed, and is probably a really damn good example of Corporate-Governmental mindset to use for the SR universe. They want the Uranium and Plutonium mining access.

Also, the oil, the timber, and so on, and so for.

And in all but a few examples, I've actually been seeing where the megas are already in Yakut making deals for that access.

"In 2044 Mitsuhama sent a team into Awakened Siberia to negotiate with the Siberian government for permission for its magical researchers to conduct studies there. The Siberians were in no mood to negotiate and sent the Mitsuhama delegation straight back to Japan. The talk on the streets here is that the Siberians sent all but four of MCT's delegation back in little bits, torn apart by shapeshifters, as an adamant sign of their refusal. And the only reason they spared four of them was because somebody had to carry the pieces back to Japan" © Target:Smuggler Havens, p.38.
Doesn't strike me as particularly megacorp-friendly.

They'll sell the Russians what they want, the Russians don't have to invade, the Yakuktians get some kickbacks here and there and no conflict with the Russians (as a general rule, not an exceptional one).

The only issue for Russia in that setup is that the mega and the Yakut government are getting the profits. Which kinda goes against the stated goals.

The sole exception to this argumentative debate seems to be centered around the Saban Zaga forces, of which they have never been given any sizable details. I would have written those guys up a LONG time ago if I had been given any say, if for no other reason to figure out just what the hell they do/don't have to some extent.

Yeah, we know pretty much nothing about them at this point. Except maybe certain propensity for ice magic and them "getting magical artifacts" from the Olkhon Island.

[Fatum]

We could also then discuss the Wizard of Olkon Island. There's an anomaly that is against the Yakut/AS forces and aligned with the SZ forces. What's he got that can balance things out the way s/he/it seems to be able to?

For all I know the wizard was brought in by the 6WA, in shadowtalk no less, so he can fuck right off. We know that the rebellion originates on the island, we know that it's a very bad idea to go there, and we know that there's certain building activity going on there. No details.
As for the insurgents, it seems pretty obvious (from SoA, for example): a lot of people in the Yakut are tired of the shapeshifters' authocratic and technophobic rule, and support the rebellion discretely if not taking active armed participation.

It's obvious the Russian Military does *NOT* have the power to take the lands back or they'd have done it by now.

A lot of things that should've happened haven't in SR; and vice versa. Take the Euro Wars I, for example. Or the whole CAS politics in what comes to Atzlan interaction in the recent War! arc.

And the Yakutian/AS forces still retain their ties to the TPA and NAN as well as the likelihood to other awakened nations (some of which are doing badly as of the Storm Front timeline).

Uh, any more on those? The NAN are progressive states (btw, isn't the TPA a NAN state?); they're green to a degree (with certain exceptions), but they're not Yakut metahuman-hating deep-green. If anyone, Amazonia seems like a natural ally for the Yakut as long as the alliance serves their goals.

The Russian Navy is now primarily in the hands/resources of yamatetsu-NT, a subsidiary of Evo Corporation.

Uh, what? The YNT is supplying most of the ships, that's obvious; since when does that imply influence or much less direct command?

I think Buttercup likely has communication channels with the awakened forces in order to allow for things to remain at a benefit to her and her corporation ... or at the very least give her and hers a faster channel of response should major changes to the balance of power occur.

I am not sure Buttercup has any more channels of communication than any other Awakened capable of astral projection, and I see no reason to presume she and Vernya see eye to eye on any issue, minding that bit on megacorp treatment in the AY.

Which brings me to Kamchatka

Which currently exists in quantum juxtaposition of the 6WA Russia writeup and the 6WA Awakened Yakut writeup (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Fatum]

We started to really question what that was all about. We started asking things such as what was on the Peninsula especially in lue of a pink-flight scenario and/or potential naval installations for anyone, russians or otherwise. The number of active volcanoes basically shot down most of the ideas.

Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky is in canon (Target:Smuggler Havens, 45).

The rest of that post seems like a mighty conspiracy theory, minding that
(a) the peninsula became an island when the entirety of the Ring of Fire erupted
(b) it's established that the Russian forces at the Shelekhov Gulf prevent the Yakut from assaulting it (same source).

Oh, and the mana lines map in parageology is better than nothing, but still shit if only because it doesn't show Russia on ANY of the region maps.

[Fatum]

This is the one particular post I wanted to point out to you. Have you ever considered rewriting "Fling"? Serioius here. We have a mage that used the 4th ed version (unaltered) the other day for the first time EVER and the group nearly passed out. He was doing damage in excess of an assault cannot, more accurate than anyone with heavy weapons/gunnery could match, and instead of Flinging Rocks started Flinging Grenades.

>Strength equal to one half the spellcaster’s Magic (Core AE 210)
So, let's say STR is about 3 to 4 for the vast majority of games and mages.
Now let's look at Arsenal Improvised Weapons table (p.17). The best we're getting is at about +2.
So? He's getting some 5 to 6P, AP 0. I kinda fail to see the big deal?

He pulled a clip of his ammo out of his gun, AV stuff, and proceeded to use that as the "missiles" he'd Fling. Combat Helicopters were toast.

AV rounds AP -6. We have no reason to presume flinging them is doing more damage than shooting them from an assault rifle, so 6P AP -7. Typical combat copter (Eurocopter Tiger or Aztechnology Aguilar-GX or Nissan Hound) has around Body 15 and Armour 15. Average soak value after AP, rolling, is 7.6 (truncating to 8). Soaked.
Okay, he's bound to have more than one net hit, but still it's not like he's downing that copter in less than a few IPs that way.

[NeoJudas]

>Strength equal to one half the spellcaster’s Magic (Core AE 210)
So, let's say STR is about 3 to 4 for the vast majority of games and mages.
Now let's look at Arsenal Improvised Weapons table (p.17). The best we're getting is at about +2.
So? He's getting some 5 to 6P, AP 0. I kinda fail to see the big deal?

AV rounds AP -6. We have no reason to presume flinging them is doing more damage than shooting them from an assault rifle, so 6P AP -7. Typical combat copter (Eurocopter Tiger or Aztechnology Aguilar-GX or Nissan Hound) has around Body 15 and Armour 15. Average soak value after AP, rolling, is 7.6 (truncating to (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) . Soaked.
Okay, he's bound to have more than one net hit, but still it's not like he's downing that copter in less than a few IPs that way.

Except that We are not talking the majority of games and mages anymore. We're talking mages whom could regularly have a magic attribute of 12-18 counting foci. Background Count, +1-+4 depending on where in Yakut you might be. Hits (by way of increased dice pool), Force and Magic have all increased. The AV round is only for the purposes of armor penetration ratings of course. Called Shots are possible, and anyone with a Centering Skill (mods) can get rid of those at the same level of the mage I'm discussing here. Also remember that aircraft come down BEFORE they reach total boxes of damage, or did that rule completely go by the wayside?

And if the mage is actually a spirit Flinging the spell, then things can readily MUCH bigger and much nastier.

[NeoJudas]

Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky is in canon (Target:Smuggler Havens, 45).

The rest of that post seems like a mighty conspiracy theory, minding that
(a) the peninsula became an island when the entirety of the Ring of Fire erupted
(b) it's established that the Russian forces at the Shelekhov Gulf prevent the Yakut from assaulting it (same source).

Oh, and the mana lines map in parageology is better than nothing, but still shit if only because it doesn't show Russia on ANY of the region maps.

I never said it was cannon in that part, I merely started to point out issues that would have to be looked at. I admitted conjecture with regards to why things happened the way they did, but any channel that cleanly "collapsed" smacks of manipulation.

And I won't disagree with you at all regarding the maps and Russia. Again, its like the writers core simply ignored it. It's also part of the reason I was very excited to see someone else on the forums who had a similar level of interest. Even if viewpoints may be different, it gives me new material considerations for our games.

[NeoJudas]

For all I know the wizard was brought in by the 6WA, in shadowtalk no less, so he can fuck right off. We know that the rebellion originates on the island, we know that it's a very bad idea to go there, and we know that there's certain building activity going on there. No details.
As for the insurgents, it seems pretty obvious (from SoA, for example): a lot of people in the Yakut are tired of the shapeshifters' authocratic and technophobic rule, and support the rebellion discretely if not taking active armed participation.

I have another area I want to bring up separate in a few.....

A lot of things that should've happened haven't in SR; and vice versa. Take the Euro Wars I, for example. Or the whole CAS politics in what comes to Atzlan interaction in the recent War! arc.

I've read some of your opinions on WAR!. I admit the only thing we really did with it was extract any new gear, spells, and MAJOR points of interest. The rest of it a brother from Columbia and I discussed directly and he really started to laugh.

Uh, any more on those? The NAN are progressive states (btw, isn't the TPA a NAN state?); they're green to a degree (with certain exceptions), but they're not Yakut metahuman-hating deep-green. If anyone, Amazonia seems like a natural ally for the Yakut as long as the alliance serves their goals.

We agreed about Amazonia. We also considered the potential for Snowdonia given that the elves (at least some of them) and the dragons are rarely friends and the Duchess has been around the SR Block more than enough times to consider options. Admit to being conjecture however. Aztlan was one we really, really, debated. The AZ sourcebook and several other books all point out the inclusion of shapers and their related ilk in the AZ forces. Problem is as we saw it, the Blood Magic.

Uh, what? The YNT is supplying most of the ships, that's obvious; since when does that imply influence or much less direct command?

If you are supplier, and repairer, and builder ... then your influence is beyond question. You also get to wield all the ritual links to all those same items (the blueprints themselves).

I am not sure Buttercup has any more channels of communication than any other Awakened capable of astral projection, and I see no reason to presume she and Vernya see eye to eye on any issue, minding that bit on megacorp treatment in the AY.

I thought the treatment of megas by Yakut/AS was not universal. Certain ones were highlighted but not all.

Which currently exists in quantum juxtaposition of the 6WA Russia writeup and the 6WA Awakened Yakut writeup (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Ha Ha Ha... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[NeoJudas]

And why exactly wouldn't it?

Because Guard power is not Force restricted, nor is Movement for that matter, on (para)critters and (meta)humans, but it is on vehicular attributes (body).

Well, Fueurschwinge? Besides, even Boorezmey is not a Great dragon.

True... but if he had a single channelled elemental along for the ride????

Not that it has ever done so believably. Great Ghost Dance terror tactics? That, I can believe to be an effective tool. Direct fight? Nah, cut me some slack - just see the rules to see that a mage is a powerful asset, but not on par with a jet.

Hrm ... depends I suppose. A mage sitting in the top of a tree under concealment with a pair of HP binocs can be hellish to locate by the jet, or the satellites, or even other magicians (needles in vast pine haystacks). I always figured it was why jet sorties would have spirit or astral protection duties assigned to them.

Uh, you notice that Russia (dunno why you keep referring to it as Soviet when it was last Soviet some 80 years ago) has almost ten times the population, going with SoA?

I'll have to look that back up. And I use the terms in freeform because depending upon whom you are discussing within the Greater Russian territory now is how THEY REFER TO IT. Generations, Tribes, Pop-Culture (Putin's current dislike) and more. It all works towards trashing a unifying national force that has to be constantly reinforced by the leadership. Something that is readily messed with.

Again, mages and spirits are powerful, but they're not be-all end-all tool in a war. For a simple example: even if you only have a single mage, you are still perfectly capable of detecting an ambush from the Astral and clearing it with artillery.

I agree, *IF* You can communicate, I completely agree. And I am not saying it's impossible. But it can readily advanced to damn near improbably when dealing with distances again. Even Extended Area Detection spells run into problems when dealing with conflicting and/or dense biomass.

That is a valid point, just like the area around Baikal gives the Sagan Zaba rebels noticeable leverage. I guess that could be fixed with mana lines manipulation, but that's a large task (that makes for a few plot hooks).

For us, it's the fact that we can't determine the strength of the plot hooks. the SZ forces would fight almost exactly like the Yakutians/AS forces... guerilla warfare and probably just as or even more so lethally (the Vory in them slipping through).

And? Attacking military convoys is far from the safest businesses on the Earth still. Better than military bases, but still.

Also, the oil, the timber, and so on, and so for.

Again True, but better than going after an firmly entrenched base unless a real ace in the hole can be found.

Now this is the part that gets me. I recently read somewhere that petro-chem resources tried out a LONG TIME ago in the SR Universe and only being used as a term because of lab-developed biofuels and related breakthroughs since then. That might have been in the SR4 Anniversary book or in Arsenal, can't recall right now.
.

"In 2044 Mitsuhama sent a team into Awakened Siberia to negotiate with the Siberian government for permission for its magical researchers to conduct studies there. The Siberians were in no mood to negotiate and sent the Mitsuhama delegation straight back to Japan. The talk on the streets here is that the Siberians sent all but four of MCT's delegation back in little bits, torn apart by shapeshifters, as an adamant sign of their refusal. And the only reason they spared four of them was because somebody had to carry the pieces back to Japan" © Target:Smuggler Havens, p.38.
Doesn't strike me as particularly megacorp-friendly.

Okay... stop right there. Mitsuhama is amongst the WORST examples of an awakened nation getting along with a megacorp. I am really certain that shadow-intel was more than enough to tell the Yakutians/AS that Mitsuhama is nearly A#1 on abusive BS.... even if this was years before the final fate of Tsimshian ... but long after the strip mining techniques in Tsimshian had started. Again, there were others.

The only issue for Russia in that setup is that the mega and the Yakut government are getting the profits. Which kinda goes against the stated goals.

The russian government goals... not those of the Yakut or Corps.

Yeah, we know pretty much nothing about them at this point. Except maybe certain propensity for ice magic and them "getting magical artifacts" from the Olkhon Island.

We started digging into russian/siberian folklore that we could find. One of the niftiest twists wound up being Baba Yaga. The old AD&D gamer in me (it doesn't play, but it recalls) started having fits about that old witch and wondered what kind of an encounter she would make. We also started to think of the former Soviet-era Siberian Prison/Camps in a way similar to Auschwitz, but perhaps not as lethal (the numbers of actual dead there are not known and most of those records are lost). But it made for evil ideas of things would not necessarily be on anyone's side either.

[NeoJudas]

Okay... next thing that occurred to us here in the 2070's years.

Technocritters. We realize that magic and controlling/communicating with them is harder ... but it is not impossible. We had serious thoughts about the technocritter emergence(s) and the impact that could readily have on things. Sure, old hardliner shapers and mages would be distrustful, but Vernya would readily recognize them for the incredibly breakthrough they would be with regards to the conflicts and technology. And as we've read, technocritter emergence didn't have anything to do with matrix dense areas and occurred even in the oceanic expanses and the depths of the Amazonia Wilds. This would not be anything different.

Discuss that twist....

[Fatum]

Except that We are not talking the majority of games and mages anymore. We're talking mages whom could regularly have a magic attribute of 12-18 counting foci. Background Count, +1-+4 depending on where in Yakut you might be. Hits (by way of increased dice pool), Force and Magic have all increased. The AV round is only for the purposes of armor penetration ratings of course. Called Shots are possible, and anyone with a Centering Skill (mods) can get rid of those at the same level of the mage I'm discussing here. Also remember that aircraft come down BEFORE they reach total boxes of damage, or did that rule completely go by the wayside?

And if the mage is actually a spirit Flinging the spell, then things can readily MUCH bigger and much nastier.

A 20+ Magic mage does not need Fling to down aircraft.

I never said it was cannon in that part, I merely started to point out issues that would have to be looked at. I admitted conjecture with regards to why things happened the way they did, but any channel that cleanly "collapsed" smacks of manipulation.

It's a valid theory (valid enough to be included in Kamchatka shadowtalk which I'm about to be writing just yet), but still, there are simpler options.

We agreed about Amazonia. We also considered the potential for Snowdonia given that the elves (at least some of them) and the dragons are rarely friends and the Duchess has been around the SR Block more than enough times to consider options. Admit to being conjecture however. Aztlan was one we really, really, debated. The AZ sourcebook and several other books all point out the inclusion of shapers and their related ilk in the AZ forces. Problem is as we saw it, the Blood Magic.

Frankly, I don't know too much about Snowdonia.
Atzlan could be an option (and there's no reason why the Yakut couldn't be doing blood magic to restore the taiga just like the Amazonians did blood magic to restore the jungle). However, the whole anti-megacorp stance prevents it, in my opinion, minding that Atzlan is basically a pawn of Aztechnology.

If you are supplier, and repairer, and builder ... then your influence is beyond question. You also get to wield all the ritual links to all those same items (the blueprints themselves).

So, in your opinion, in RL the CEO of Severodvinsk military dockyards (which produce and service the current generation of Russian nuclear subs) has nuclear capability of his own? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
No, I mean, surely Evo has solid political clout with the Russian government, after all, it's the only mega to call Russia its home base. Their influence is by far not limited by servicing the Navy.

I thought the treatment of megas by Yakut/AS was not universal. Certain ones were highlighted but not all.

I'm yet to find any mentions of their dealings with megas other than some of them being allowed mining rights under the watchful gaze of the shifters (which rarely makes for the best bottom line for the megas).

[Fatum]

Because Guard power is not Force restricted, nor is Movement for that matter, on (para)critters and (meta)humans, but it is on vehicular attributes (body).

Can't see that in the power's description?

True... but if he had a single channelled elemental along for the ride????

And? Spirits are Immune to Normal Weapons, but that just means they take a bit more Normal Weapons to disrupt, is all.

Hrm ... depends I suppose. A mage sitting in the top of a tree under concealment with a pair of HP binocs can be hellish to locate by the jet, or the satellites, or even other magicians (needles in vast pine haystacks). I always figured it was why jet sorties would have spirit or astral protection duties assigned to them.

Concealment is troublesome, but a SOTA jet sensor suite has a chance to see through it. But it'll glow like a motherfuck on Astral.
I agree that most operations need magical support, though.

I'll have to look that back up.

Russia: 144m (SoA, 125). Yakut: 19m (SoA, 140).

And I use the terms in freeform because depending upon whom you are discussing within the Greater Russian territory now is how THEY REFER TO IT.

Haha, no. Not at all. Some demschizoid type with paranoid tendencies might call Putin's Russia the new USSR, but that's as marginal an opinion as it gets.
SR Russia has the NSS, National Supreme Soviet, as its governing body, but the "Soviet" in question means "Council". The leading party, National Soviet Reconstructionists, take their name from the name of the governing body as well.

I agree, *IF* You can communicate, I completely agree. And I am not saying it's impossible. But it can readily advanced to damn near improbably when dealing with distances again. Even Extended Area Detection spells run into problems when dealing with conflicting and/or dense biomass.

You don't even need those, just see the auras from the astral. Getting back to your body to report is taking you what, a dozen seconds at most, with the movement speeds on Astral.

For us, it's the fact that we can't determine the strength of the plot hooks. the SZ forces would fight almost exactly like the Yakutians/AS forces... guerilla warfare and probably just as or even more so lethally (the Vory in them slipping through).

Against the Russians maybe (although it seems rather inconsistent to me that the rebels are fighting the Russians instead of getting their support at least until they oust the shifters and grab the power themselves).
Can't find anything on the Vory playing any significant role in the rebellion - they are generally not really frontline fighters.

[Fatum]

Again True, but better than going after an firmly entrenched base unless a real ace in the hole can be found.

That just means turning the country into something like Iraq or Afghanistan under the American rule: the resources are mined, and while it's not safe for the garrisons or the convoys by far, the insurgents aren't stopping the extraction.

Now this is the part that gets me. I recently read somewhere that petro-chem resources tried out a LONG TIME ago in the SR Universe and only being used as a term because of lab-developed biofuels and related breakthroughs since then. That might have been in the SR4 Anniversary book or in Arsenal, can't recall right now.

There were tidbits on conventional resources running out, I believe, yeah, and the text proceeding on how gene-engineered bacteria are used to extract oil and related products from sands and other such inconvenient sources previously thought commercially unfeasible.

Okay... stop right there. Mitsuhama is amongst the WORST examples of an awakened nation getting along with a megacorp. I am really certain that shadow-intel was more than enough to tell the Yakutians/AS that Mitsuhama is nearly A#1 on abusive BS.... even if this was years before the final fate of Tsimshian ... but long after the strip mining techniques in Tsimshian had started. Again, there were others.

There are others, but most of them are not any better than MCT.

The russian government goals... not those of the Yakut or Corps.

Yeah, that's why it's Russian government that's waging the war, not the megacorps. Although minding how restricting the Yakut are on technology, the megacorps would have their stake in the war.

We started digging into russian/siberian folklore that we could find. One of the niftiest twists wound up being Baba Yaga. The old AD&D gamer in me (it doesn't play, but it recalls) started having fits about that old witch and wondered what kind of an encounter she would make. We also started to think of the former Soviet-era Siberian Prison/Camps in a way similar to Auschwitz, but perhaps not as lethal (the numbers of actual dead there are not known and most of those records are lost). But it made for evil ideas of things would not necessarily be on anyone's side either.

Baba Yaga is a statted spirit in Running Wild.
And yeah, the GULAG camps are not exactly the German extermination camps, but nasty places nonetheless.
I find myself much more interested in the shamanic tradition of the region, but with the American tradition already in the crunch, I don't think there's too much in-game stuff I can pull.

Okay... next thing that occurred to us here in the 2070's years.

Technocritters. We realize that magic and controlling/communicating with them is harder ... but it is not impossible. We had serious thoughts about the technocritter emergence(s) and the impact that could readily have on things. Sure, old hardliner shapers and mages would be distrustful, but Vernya would readily recognize them for the incredibly breakthrough they would be with regards to the conflicts and technology. And as we've read, technocritter emergence didn't have anything to do with matrix dense areas and occurred even in the oceanic expanses and the depths of the Amazonia Wilds. This would not be anything different.

Discuss that twist....

Technophobic, remember? I don't think Vernya's about to embrace the critters that are adapted to Matrix any more than she's likely to embrace toxic mutants.

[NeoJudas]

Baba Yaga is a statted spirit in Running Wild.

No, Baba Yaga is not, Baba Yaga spirits are. I'm speaking in the singular, unique, not the classification/grouping.

And yeah, the GULAG camps are not exactly the German extermination camps, but nasty places nonetheless.
I find myself much more interested in the shamanic tradition of the region, but with the American tradition already in the crunch, I don't think there's too much in-game stuff I can pull.

What do you mean? The Yakutian/Siberian tribals were very near iconists with a spattering of demons and animus thrown in for good measure.

Technophobic, remember? I don't think Vernya's about to embrace the critters that are adapted to Matrix any more than she's likely to embrace toxic mutants.

What is it with you and technophobic? Background Hardliners might be, but we're up to 30-40 years of conflicts rising and raging. A lot of the earliest members of the battles are gone, replaced by new frontliners and those who see what weapons are being used on them and work and are SAPIENT enough to realize when something neat as hell can work because the shapers have opposable thumbs as well.

Infiltration has long been one the greatest weapons of the shapers. And that means mingling amongst the bad guys and using tech-stuff to accomplish goals. eCritters are IMNSHO Yakut's wet-dream. Biological beings with many of the advantages of the technomancers (SOTA upgrades), but not needing the actual hardware. And in nearly every sense of random encounter with the things, they resist being controlled by (meta)humanity and do what they want. Sometimes in a rather aggressive or hostile manner.

Sure, some things are not compatible. The eDolphins and Storm Dophins are listed as not being friendly with one another. But some of that could be an inherent problem with the forces that created the Storm Dolphins in the first place. But a wolf pack with a eCritter (or two/three) in it would have all the normal pack behaviours in the wild, and if not all the pack was Resonant, it leaves some middle ground for compatible goals.

I also had one area that RECENTLY was rediscovered, and caused me as a long-term gamer to have a kind of mental double-take/fit. Delta Grade Cyberware could be implanted into Shapers. Ok, I realize this is not likely to be common or voluntary process, but wow. Depending on the situation and the implants, that would be one hell of an extraction target by the Yakutian Awakened Forces.

[Fatum]

No, Baba Yaga is not, Baba Yaga spirits are. I'm speaking in the singular, unique, not the classification/grouping.

Shadowrun has a long-running tradition of turning folklore beliefs into spirit types; and that's been done for Baba Yaga (and the rest of the creatures of the same archetype). While I agree it's powerful image with great storytelling potential, I try not to contradict pre-established fluff where possible.

What do you mean? The Yakutian/Siberian tribals were very near iconists with a spattering of demons and animus thrown in for good measure.

First, they were rather different among themselves, just piling them all together as if they have a common tradition wouldn't be doing them justice.
Second, the Native American shamanic traditions were also quite a diverse bunch, but they all got bundled into a single Shamanic tradition in the crunch.

What is it with you and technophobic? Background Hardliners might be, but we're up to 30-40 years of conflicts rising and raging. A lot of the earliest members of the battles are gone, replaced by new frontliners and those who see what weapons are being used on them and work and are SAPIENT enough to realize when something neat as hell can work because the shapers have opposable thumbs as well.

Vernya's not gone anywhere, and each write-up of the Yakut points out that they're extremely technophobic, to the point of making most of the country metahuman-free to clear it from the taint.

Infiltration has long been one the greatest weapons of the shapers. And that means mingling amongst the bad guys and using tech-stuff to accomplish goals. eCritters are IMNSHO Yakut's wet-dream. Biological beings with many of the advantages of the technomancers (SOTA upgrades), but not needing the actual hardware. And in nearly every sense of random encounter with the things, they resist being controlled by (meta)humanity and do what they want. Sometimes in a rather aggressive or hostile manner.

Technocritters don't have any qualitative differences from paracritters when it comes to training, so that's a non-issue.

I also had one area that RECENTLY was rediscovered, and caused me as a long-term gamer to have a kind of mental double-take/fit. Delta Grade Cyberware could be implanted into Shapers. Ok, I realize this is not likely to be common or voluntary process, but wow. Depending on the situation and the implants, that would be one hell of an extraction target by the Yakutian Awakened Forces.

I am frankly not sure where in the Northern Asia can one find a delta clinic.