Hacker Rules, How completely do you implement them? Options

[SpellBinder]

I think this is what Fatum is thinking about:

Program updates and patches are also available on underground file sharing networks and may be located in the same way. The cost for program patches and updates (which restore the degraded program to its full rating) is 10 percent of the difference in street cost between the program’s current (degraded) rating and its full rating. All programs, updates, etc. from an underground file-sharing network have their copy protection cracked, if they ever had any to begin with.

[longbowrocks]

Barring such a rule, I'd require much more cash to stay current than that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Well, there is the fact that a strategy of that sort banks on a short game. It's going to set you back a bit every month, and after 9 months have passed, you'll start wishing you had bought the programs legit. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Fatum]

I think this is what Fatum is thinking about:

Yep, that seems to be the ruling I remember.

Well, there is the fact that a strategy of that sort banks on a short game. It's going to set you back a bit every month, and after 9 months have passed, you'll start wishing you had bought the programs legit. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

In nine months, you're either dead, double dead, rich or much more proficient, so either way you're unlikely to have those programs stay that long.

[TheOOB]

Who ever said software with the registration and copy protection options were always legal? There are plenty of black and grey market sources who are more than happy to sell you a black hammer program with those options(thus it's supported) without needing pesky things like a SIN, or a distribution license.

Those program options just mean that the thing gets updated by someone, and any copies don't get the updates. Whether you get it legally from Wire Wizards or illegally from some freelance programmer, the options work the same.

[PoliteMan]

Well, there is the fact that a strategy of that sort banks on a short game. It's going to set you back a bit every month, and after 9 months have passed, you'll start wishing you had bought the programs legit. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Nah, consider an R6 hacking program.
Buying it legit is 6000
Pirated is 600 and 100 a month on updates. It'll take over 3 years for the Pirated version to cost more than the Legit version.

Just consider it your new lifestyle cost, since every hacker spoofs their lifestyle.

[Hida Tsuzua]

I second piracy. You don't have to buy a new program when it degrades, you just have to pay ten percent of the difference in cost between the degraded rating and the full rating of a program (Unwired 94). It's annoying that you can't start play with pirated programs, but your GM might allow you to start with them. Otherwise you're just a man carrying a browse program on a nice commlink for a run or two.

[Magus]

AFB right now but your own CREATED/WRITTEN software does not degrade. I thought that was in the Unwired Errata or if you go by it The FAQ (of doom and misery).

[suoq]

Sanity check: 1st check with your gamemaster. What Unwired has done has been to add a lot of overhead and dice rolling to the game that has everyone but the hacker watching Netflix and advances the plot nowhere. Unless you have some plot device that centers around pirated software, registration, and the hacker, throw all that overhead out the window because it isn't doing your game any good.

Shouldn't the registration on everyone's commlink OS make it easy to trace every call between your fixxer and your teammates? Does anyone ever care if their tacnet is registered? Do they worry that their tacnet is reporting everything back to some home corporation? Is every negotiation the face makes with the emotisoft recorded and reported to some megacorp through it's registration? Does using smartguns make it easier to trace back who capped the security guards? My bet is that all that overhead and annoyance is ignored for everyone except the hacker and the hacker puts up with it because piracy makes software insanely cheap and those rules just give him a bunch of personal attention at no real risk.

Talk to your GM and toss out the rules that don't serve the game.

[Yerameyahu]

Your hand-written software totally degrades. It just doesn't do it *because of* planned obsolescence.

RE: Fatum's rule, for some reason I read his post as '10% for the program, then 1% for the updates'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It's the same 10% both cases, of course.

[Shaikujin]

AFB right now but your own CREATED/WRITTEN software does not degrade. I thought that was in the Unwired Errata or if you go by it The FAQ (of doom and misery).

That's what I thought too. This is from the Unwired errata:

p. 109 Pirated Software
Replace the final paragraph of this section with the following
text:
“Degradation of pirated software owes as much to systemic
software and firmware upgrades demanding compatibility
updates as to the megacorporations making regular updates
an anti-piracy feature. In 2070, obsolescence and latent program
degradation is hardcoded into software and is triggered
when compromised software is flagged. Patching and upgrades
are transformed into a security feature.
Software programmed by the hacker and Open Source
programs never degrade in this fashion, but may require patching
to remain current at the gamemaster’s discretion.

Emphasis mine. Self-written and Open Source programs do not have any inherently coded degradation. This changes the need for patching to an exception rather than the rule.

Also, on pg 110, there's the following optional rule sidebar regarding open source programs:

Alternatively, open source programs produced by warez groups
might be traded for free or patched up more regularly, as long as the
hacker character maintains a warez contact and contributes to the
group. For each piece he contributes, the hacker may download a
number of programs equal to the contact’s Loyalty rating.

Emphasis mine. It's an optional rule, but if your GM allows it, a loyalty 6 contact should allow you to reduce the number of programs you need to write/patch to 1/6.

[Magus]

Ah Ha so I was not crazy delusional when I posted that! Thanks Shaikujin!. I last read Unwired about a year ago and that was from Memory. LOL

Go Go gadjet brainware!

[Yerameyahu]

"in this fashion, but may require patching
to remain current at the gamemaster’s discretion."

Emphasis!!! Mine!1 Hehehe.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

"in this fashion, but may require patching
to remain current at the gamemaster’s discretion."

Emphasis!!! Mine!1 Hehehe.

Note that it says MAY require patching, NOT DOES require patching... Important distinction there Yerameyahu...

[Yerameyahu]

Right. They only require patching if the GM isn't dumb. Which I suppose he'd have to be if you're self-coding programs at any reasonable rate, because that requires the sneaky 1/8-time method. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

By the way, Tymeaus, whose emphasis is that in your post? I claim it for myself! Your emphasis mine!

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Right. They only require patching if the GM isn't dumb. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) By the way, Tymeaus, whose emphasis is that in your post? I claim it for myself! Your emphasis mine!

I tend to approach it another way. If the character has taken the time to program his software in game, then I have no real issues with him getting a bonus of not having to worry about patching them. Since Programs only set the threshold limits in our game, and do not add dice (Optional Rule that I know I have previously discussed), it does not really matter all that much. It is an insignificant cost to maintain programs in game anyways. It is a perk for those who take the time to acutally do something other than shooting people in the face for money. And it generates interesting stories to boot, which I consider a bonus. Much like that story in Unwired about Slammo! purchasing/trading programs because he needed a high rated program from another hacker that he did not have.

You can have the credits for the Emphasis... All yours !!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Cheops]

Does it really matter at all how much a hacker's programs cost and what rating they are? Hacking is so trivial now that I find it hard to care.

[longbowrocks]

Nah, consider an R6 hacking program.
Buying it legit is 6000
Pirated is 600 and 100 a month on updates. It'll take over 3 years for the Pirated version to cost more than the Legit version.

Just consider it your new lifestyle cost, since every hacker spoofs their lifestyle.

Ah, good point. I calculated based on the original cost, not the updates.

[SpellBinder]

Does it really matter at all how much a hacker's programs cost and what rating they are? Hacking is so trivial now that I find it hard to care.

It will when your degraded Rating one Analyze and Firewall programs can't detect a hacker using SOTA Rating 6 Exploit and Stealth programs to break into your commlink. You could find yourself with an empty contacts list and bank account, among other things.

On the flip side, it still will when your degraded Rating one Exploit program can't reasonably cut through a SOTA Rating 6 Firewall without alerting someone because your degraded Rating one Stealth program can't hide your shadow in a dark room.

[longbowrocks]

using SOTA Rating 6 Exploit and Stealth programs to break into your commlink.

SOTA: Shadow of the American?

In other news, how do you get 1/8 interval for programming? I'm aware of rushing the job and programming environments, but that's all I can think of.

[Yerameyahu]

It was mentioned earlier: optional rule to spend Edge for halving the interval. Feh.

[James McMurray]

It was mentioned earlier: optional rule to spend Edge for halving the interval. Feh.

Nobody has asked for that optional rule, but I'd allow it. Edge refreshes every session and has been incredibly important in our campaign. Please spend it during downtime before the run even starts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[PoliteMan]

SOTA: Shadow of the American?

SOTA=State of the Art (at least that's been my reading)

Nobody has asked for that optional rule, but I'd allow it. Edge refreshes every session and has been incredibly important in our campaign. Please spend it during downtime before the run even starts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Careful with that, it can lead to some crazy programming stuff.
For example, coding a R12 hacking program is a (24, 1 Month) extended test.

Now a basic hacker is looking at a Logic of 7, Skill of 5 (ish), +5 from from various logic-skill upgrades, and an additional +5 from the Programming environment/assist program in Unwired, so 22 dice. That's 3-4 tests to complete at half-a-week per test. I think most hackers would gleefully drop a point or two of Edge to churn out a R12 program every 2 weeks.

[longbowrocks]

Thanks for the synopsis on SOTA.

What are you going to run an R12 program on? Are you suggesting the optimization program option?

[PoliteMan]

Yeah, that'd be the only way to run it on any reasonable commlink.

*beat*

Of course, dropping edge, you'd be able to get the interval for programming your own System down from 6 months to roughly 3 weeks, which is fairly doable over a couple sessions. Of course, getting your response up high enough to run it would require a crap ton of money and probably an argument with your GM over the Availability of parts but building that R12 Nexus begins to look very doable.

And of course, if you had a Nexus with system 12, you could theoretically program R18 programs...

Yeah, James, I really wouldn't recommend you let your players use that rule.

[longbowrocks]

building that R12 Nexus begins to look very doable.

*just barely. Don't you need to buy the best hardware available from WAR, and then build your own modules to upgrade that by +2 to 12? That's all I can think of, and that's the absolute limit as far as I know.