[X] My Assistant

[Larsine]

Well, SR USSR was not that different, was it? It still fell apart in 1991, it's around the 2000ies when the differences with RL really started to show.
So we can as well suppose that SR Sukhoi developed the same aircraft RL Sukhoi did :ь

It all depends on what version of SR you take as canon.

In SR1 it was still USSR in 2016:

Amid the storm of criticism, Garrety was assassinated in late-2016, followed shortly by the assassinations of General Secretary Nikolai Chelenko of the USSR, Prime Minister Lena Rodale of Great Britain, and Minister Chaim Schon of Israel.

Without any further explanations, that was changed in SR2 to Russia:

Amid the storm of criticism, Garrety was assassinated in late 2016, followed shortly by the assassinations of Russian President Nikolai Chelenko, Prime Minister Lena Rodale of Great Britain, and Minister Chaim Schon of Israel.

According to SR1 page 19 the USSR does not fragment until the end of the Euro-War.

That, however, was retconned in SR2 (published in 1992), where it is just assumed that the collapse of the USSR has already happened, and it is not even mentioned.

[redwulf25]

It all depends on what version of SR you take as canon.

In SR1 it was still USSR in 2016:

Without any further explanations, that was changed in SR2 to Russia:

According to SR1 page 19 the USSR does not fragment until the end of the Euro-War.

That, however, was retconned in SR2 (published in 1992), where it is just assumed that the collapse of the USSR has already happened, and it is not even mentioned.

That's because crash 2.0 corrupted all the data. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Fatum]

It all depends on what version of SR you take as canon.
In SR1 it was still USSR in 2016:
Without any further explanations, that was changed in SR2 to Russia:
According to SR1 page 19 the USSR does not fragment until the end of the Euro-War.
That, however, was retconned in SR2 (published in 1992), where it is just assumed that the collapse of the USSR has already happened, and it is not even mentioned.

Yeah, I know. Euro War I made more sense in the first edition, too (very little, but still at least some, unlike the current story). But with the established canon (namely, the SoA write-up of Russian history), it seems like until at least 2000 Russian history went more or less like in RL; the real divergence starts with the Border Wars (which are never really described explicitly, but the bits on Russian history in Target:Runner Havens lead me to believe they led to reunification of at least the European former Soviet Republics back into some horrific Frankenstein monsterish USSR 1.1, and the whole gig lasting as long as 25 years).

[hermit]

Well, not the Baltic republics, they were just overrun, but with Belarus and Ukraine, recognised as Little Russia and Littler Russia in Tom Clancy books.

But yes, for some reason Russia decided it would become USSR 2.0, with no ressources (however that happened to Russia). and then decided to try and conquer known ressource rich states such as Germany for their vast natural ressources.

[Fatum]

Well, not the Baltic republics, they were just overrun, but with Belarus and Ukraine, recognised as Little Russia and Littler Russia in Tom Clancy books.

I don't remember all that much on the Baltic states, but when grabbing your former republics, why not grab those midgets as well? It's not like they had anything to match an army which the entirety of Europe had trouble fighting.

But yes, for some reason Russia decided it would become USSR 2.0, with no ressources (however that happened to Russia). and then decided to try and conquer known ressource rich states such as Germany for their vast natural ressources.

Well, Russia attacked Poland (or rather, Poland "annexed parts of Belarus to help the refugees of the Border Wars", and Russia stroke back). The only reason my group had to offer for moving on and attacking everyone at once was that there was simply no place for all the soldiers Russia sent to Poland there, so in the jam the guys just pushed a bunch of people over the borders, and it went on.

[hermit]

I don't remember all that much on the Baltic states, but when grabbing your former republics, why not grab those midgets as well? It's not like they had anything to match an army which the entirety of Europe had trouble fighting.

Okay, so you meant a more chinese reunification. Usually, I take this with a slant of 'voluntary'.

Still, Russia staring a war for ressources is like Saudi Arabia occupying Egypt for it's oil fields.

[Fatum]

Okay, so you meant a more chinese reunification. Usually, I take this with a slant of 'voluntary'.

Who'd voluntary join Russia? This is SR, not RL.

Still, Russia staring a war for ressources is like Saudi Arabia occupying Egypt for it's oil fields.

Well, minding that by the beginning of the Euro Wars Russia had lost Siberia...

[Bull]

Wouldn't SR have begun deviating in the pre-Sumerian days, sometime around the 1st or 2nd world? I mean, this is the 6th world and dragons/immortal elves were sleeping for quite a bit, even if we discount the ED stuff.

Well, yes. But I'm specifically talking modern timeline and how events came about to shape Shadowrun politically and technologically. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

But again, this proves the point that you really have to look even further back. But late 80's is where the "Hard" break comes in, and we as writers and freelancers are free to disregard real life and recent history as needed.

Bull

[CanRay]

"I reject your reality and substitute my own." - Adam Savage

Now, if you excuse me, I have to start figuring out how to use a Rotodrone to tenderize a steak.

[hermit]

Who'd voluntary join Russia? This is SR, not RL.

It's a common trope (though pretty much wrong) that Belarus and Ukraine totally would, usually in conjunction with Russian Nationalists™ taking power. Target: Smuggler Havens (and later shadows of Europe and Shadows of Asia) went with that pretty much, just like a bazillion of shooter games and action movies.

[CanRay]

Who'd voluntary join Russia? This is SR, not RL.

It's a common trope (though pretty much wrong) that Belarus and Ukraine totally would, usually in conjunction with Russian Nationalists™ taking power. Target: Smuggler Havens (and later shadows of Europe and Shadows of Asia) went with that pretty much, just like a bazillion of shooter games and action movies.

There's voluntary, and there's what APPEARS to be voluntary. That can make all the difference.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

There's voluntary, and there's what APPEARS to be voluntary. That can make all the difference.

And there's "you can get no food except by joining the Army" voluntary...

[hermit]

There's voluntary, and there's what APPEARS to be voluntary. That can make all the difference.

The latter, in reality, has a strong tendency to blow up thoroughly into the extra smart oppressing party's faces.

[BlackHat]

Could someone with this PDF shine some light on how much of the PDF could be used by out-of-the-box characters? Is this more of a GM-book with stats for toys he might toss his players way, or a PC-book with options for riggers who want to take to the skies? Not that most Runners have need for personally-owned aircraft, in my experience, but if you had a PC who wanted to - and didn't mind investing BP in a toy he wouldn't get to take out very often - could he actually use anything in the PDF, or is it all million-nuyen aircraft with availability in the 30s?

Edit: I did look at the preview (which made adobe cry with a couple of errors), and the two stat blocks I could see did have prices well above anything a PC could generally acquire (without the GM allowing one to be stole, or handing out way too much cred) - which is probably just fine for aircraft, and keeps them out of the hands of street-level criminals... I'm just curious if that is the case with everything in the book, or if there are some "discount" options that PCs could actually pick up (like some of the light helicopters in BBB and Arsenal).

[CanRay]

Not much available for starting characters... Experienced characters will have to save up if they want to buy one of these things.

Lots of items to steal, however.

But mostly a GM book for "The Target is flying in on $Plane, you are to extract him while he's still in the air, as the security at both airports are too high."

[Sengir]

Anyone (I'm looking at you, Mr. Hardy) can post a breakdown of vehicle types?

[CanRay]

Well, most of them can fly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Usually. If the parts are in. And the mechanic on call isn't unconscious from drinking that rotgut he distills himself. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Fatum]

Well, most of them can fly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Usually. If the parts are in. And the mechanic on call isn't unconscious from drinking that rotgut he distills himself. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

In the glorious Red Army, mechanics got some 50 liters of pure ethanol per each take-off scheduled.
The Party cared for its children!

[Nath]

The relations between officers and NCO can be of three kinds :
- in the army, the officers can stay in his tent while the NCO goes on the front line
- in the navy, the officers and NCO are on the same ship
- in the air force, the NCO stay on the ground, looking at their officers taking off in the aircrafts they took care off...

[JM Hardy]

Anyone (I'm looking at you, Mr. Hardy) can post a breakdown of vehicle types?

3 Personal Luxury Aircraft
1 Tactical Transport
3 Transport Planes
2 Passenger Planes
1 Glider
1 Tactical Aircraft
5 Light Transports
3 Medium Transports
3 Passenger Liners
2 Jumbo Airliners
2 Cargo Helicopters
1 Utility Helicopter
5 Tactical Aircraft

There ya go!

Jason H.

[CanRay]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around "The Family Blimp" like it was just a Ford AmeriCar or something. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

One of the Light Transport Planes (Lear-Cessna Rover to be exact), however, has a lot of potential uses for a Shadowteam. A bit out of the price range of most Riggers, it's something to save for. I could see it used as a item for Teams that pull in the big money working out of town, especially if modified for Aquatic Landing (Floatiation). I'd liken this bird to being like the de Havilland Canada DHC-2 Turbo Beaver. With a bit of work (Extra Entry/Exit Points) it could even be used for parachuting duty. Frankly, the suggestion given in the Shadowtalk lacks... Thought. But is still cool. Yes, I found a new baby.

The two DocWagon items are exceptionally good to have at any time, with all the DocWagon conctractees. Pop Mr. Bullet into the wrong person, and Air Calvary comes in a Tilt-Wing with Wagner blaring from the speakers. Or Black Sabbath. Both would be considered Classical Music by the 2070s. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

All the Rotorcraft have practical applications for a well-equipped Shadowteam, but most are in the "Steal It To Own It" category of price. Or, better yet, have a contact that owns one. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

The rest of the items are great for GMs that need a piece of equipment or item statted out for a 'Run, rather than the typical "You extract the target at his home/in his car, if he wants the extraction or not."-type runs.

Also, it gives an image of what the hell the group is flying in if they somehow get past airport security.

[Sengir]

In the glorious Red Army, mechanics got some 50 liters of pure ethanol per each take-off scheduled.

Makes sense, a huge load of Ethanol every couple of days to stave off the effects from drinking brake fluid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

And thanks Jason, if I need something from that list I will remember it...

[hermit]

One of the Light Transport Planes (Lear-Cessna Rover to be exact), however, has a lot of potential uses for a Shadowteam. A bit out of the price range of most Riggers, it's something to save for. I could see it used as a item for Teams that pull in the big money working out of town, especially if modified for Aquatic Landing (Floatiation). I'd liken this bird to being like the de Havilland Canada DHC-2 Turbo Beaver. With a bit of work (Extra Entry/Exit Points) it could even be used for parachuting duty. Frankly, the suggestion given in the Shadowtalk lacks... Thought. But is still cool. Yes, I found a new baby.

Yeah ... back in the day my rigger had one of these babies. Saved endlessly for it, but it's worth it, or was during SR2/SR3 times, because of the loads and loads of mod space it had. Not sure if that still applies, but I'd pretty much sign this for this bird otherwise.

[Fatum]

I wonder how Orbital DK can tell what kind of a plane the team used for deployment just by looking at it...

The Platinum One's propulsion system makes me wtf. Turbines... and a propeller after them? With the kind of jet stream the turbines leave, that prop is more likely to be used as an airbrake! Same goes for the Skytruck.

Elijah's comment at the Platinum Two made me laugh.

I'm not sure why Doc Wagon needs two different kinds of helicopters and a tilt-wing plane in their fleet; or why their light helis use the twin-rotor scheme used for heavy-lifters...

The Grande Concorde's speed is far too low for a suborbital, same goes for the SV250.

IL-159 “Molyniya”. I'll just leave it as it is... No, actually, not - it's not 1992 any more, there's is goddamn google translate, it would have taken fragging seconds to get the spelling of "Molniya" right.

The Airstar 2050 suggested to be a Body 15 Armour 4 gunship made me laugh yet again.

The Dakota looks goddamn badass.

The Reckoner makes no sense. The description says it's used for rigger training, but it has no Rigger Adaptation. Then the shadowtalkers talk about how VR is good, but real training aircraft is better, and topple it off with "militaries are also not willing to risk losing a multi-million nuyen aircraft to an area jammer or unforeseen turbulence" - because no amount of VR training is preparing you for those, and 1,6m¥ for the Reckoner is not that much to lose!

>This MiG was assigned the marketing name “Founder” in keeping with former NATO codename conventions.
Rrrright.

>The Fixer features enhanced maneuverability and super-cruise capability in an attempt to dominate the dogfight arena.
Minding that super-sound flight without afterburning and highly stealthy design are both on the requirements list for the fifth generation fighters, and War! states SR current gen is the seventh, I can't see how super-cruise ability is making the Su dominate dogfights.
Also, I wonder why modern-day Su fighters have 11 hardpoints and a chin-mounted gun, and the SR MiGs and Sus have three to five...

[CanRay]

Yeah ... back in the day my rigger had one of these babies. Saved endlessly for it, but it's worth it, or was during SR2/SR3 times, because of the loads and loads of mod space it had. Not sure if that still applies, but I'd pretty much sign this for this bird otherwise.

Body of 14 with Improved Take Off/Landing 1 already in play. So a fair amount of play using the new Slots System in Arsenal.

If I had one, I'd probably upgrade that to TO/L 2 with JATO Rockets. If for nothing else than just driving the thing out of a warehouse and then taking off over the cop cars that were sure we were trapped inside and helpless. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)