Is War! Really that Bad?, Fatum: I moved it here. Let's continue. Options

[James McMurray]

@James McMurray
Simple. First the engine block(or to be precise the front of it) enters the field and his movement is slowed. The rest of the car is slowed because of the reaction force. Since the car is outside the field the kinetic energie is not absorbed. Instead it is transformed in heat and transformation energie ripping the car appart.
(Like you see it in car accident going 50 mph against a wall.)
The spell fizzels the moment most of the car has entered the area (or most of the car). But at this point the car has lost most of its kinetic energy.
So the truck would probably come to a hold in front of the mage (or to be precise whats left of the truck). (If the area has a radius of 3 m or something like that)
Then the spell would have been deactivated, and the mage could have a non slow motion spit at the remains and walk away.

The spell is broken, because it is slowing everything to a said speed. No matter what forces are behind it. No matter how fast it went before.
This is the problem. You can shoot planes down with it, crash cars, protect you from bullets, restrain people and it is one of the best rescue yourself spells (if fall of a plane, I want to jump out of a car) etc. etc.

Ah, I've already explained my feelings on mixing physics and magic. Buh-bye! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

One thing no one mentioned.
1- See the group of trolls running towards you after you cast slow. Cast slow on them. Now they won't be able to reach you this turn, no matter how many IP's they have. Assuming you are a magician with at least 2 IP's, cast something to disable them.
2- Next turn, they are moving out of the slow spell area. Cast another one. Cast something else to disable them.
3- If they are still going after you, go back to '2', else stop.

If the group is heavy enough to break your Slow, then using Slow on them to stop them is a really bad idea.

[James McMurray]

Okay, suppose my designator modulates the sinusoid with 101010101 signal, my squad mate's - with 110110110, and the guy's on the other side - with 100100100. Each of those is used to designate a target for its own missile, and neither we nor the guy on the other side know each other's modulating signals. Now, a mage casts a spell, and all those three missiles go off course and hit the target he designated.

We haven't used any indirect fire or target designators in our game, so I'm probably missing something, but I don't see anything that says the Designate spell redirects any of the weapons in the vicinity. It says it mimics the effects of a target designator and its net hits are used with the target is fired at. How does that let it pull other missiles out of the sky and redirect them towards the target of the spell?

The spell:

Designate (Realistic, Single-Sense)
Type: P • Range: LOS • Duration S • DV: (F ÷ 2) – 1
This spell mimics the effects of a target designator (p. 34, Arsenal). Once the target is designated by this spell, the caster does not need to maintain line of sight but does need to sustain the spell to keep the target “lit.” The hits from the Spellcasting test are used as the net hits added to the indirect fire test when weapons are fired at the target.

This spell can only create a part of the spectrum that is integrally accessible to the caster. By default, this means it can only mimic a laser designator in the visible light spectrum. If the caster has thermographic vision (either natural or implanted, but not via imaging device), the spell may also act as an infrared designator. If the caster has an implanted radar sensor, the spell may mimic radar and microwave (maser) designators.

I'm not seeing anything that would allow it to affect weapons that have already been fired, or weapons that are fired at any target other than the original.

[Fatum]

[...] it was in [the author's] forum(?) post, where someone suggested using the spell for that, and the author not only agreed enthusiastically, but said he'd award a player for such inventiveness.

[Yerameyahu]

I think I addressed that already. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) If the author enthusiastically supported the idea of using the Heal spell to inflict cancer on people, it'd still be stupid and against the rules.

[Fatum]

If the author of the Heal spell said "I designed Heal for you to be able to inflict cancer and other arthropoda, among other uses", I'd seriously consider if I want the spell in my campaign.

[James McMurray]

it was in [the author's] forum(?) post, where someone suggested using the spell for that, and the author not only agreed enthusiastically, but said he'd award a player for such inventiveness.

Ah, sorry. I missed where people were saying it worked differently then what was in the book because of an unspecified forum post somewhere on the net. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

So if I'm understanding it, as written it doesn't in any way shape or form affect someone else's designated targets, but the author appears to be willing to house rule it to allow that.

[James McMurray]

If the author of the Heal spell said "I designed Heal for you to be able to inflict cancer and other arthropoda, among other uses", I'd seriously consider if I want the spell in my campaign.

Why not just "seriously consider if you want that person's house rule in your game." I don't see any reason to toss our perfectly functional RAW because the original author's intent was different than what made it to print.

[Fatum]

I like how you switch from advocating using RAI to advocating using RAW, James McMurray. It makes your points seem so valid.

[Yerameyahu]

It's not a question of RAW vs. RAI. RAI means that there's a clear interpretation or error available, not that the author intended something *totally* different from what he wrote. It's also not important if the author's intent was bad, terribly and brokenly bad. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Mäx]

I like how you switch from advocating using RAI to advocating using RAW, James McMurray. It makes your points seem so valid.

And i like how you butcher the term RAI.
It makes you post seem so smart (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Glyph]

Shadowrun books are written by more than one person, and go through various rounds of editing after that. One single author's opinion on what something he wrote should do has no more bearing in a rules discussion than anyone else's opinion. As the person who wrote it, the original author can sometimes help to resolve an ambiguity, when more than one interpretation is possible. But absent an official errata, it is still merely one person's opinion.

[Fatum]

Shadowrun books are written by more than one person, and go through various rounds of editing after that. One single author's opinion on what something he wrote should do has no more bearing in a rules discussion than anyone else's opinion. As the person who wrote it, the original author can sometimes help to resolve an ambiguity, when more than one interpretation is possible. But absent an official errata, it is still merely one person's opinion.

>War!
>various rounds of editing

>CGL
>official errata

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

[Steven]

I can ignore the poorly designed layout of the book. I can overlook the dreadful rules, spells, and equipment writeups that were likely never playtested. I can even look beyond the all the illogical omissions (maps, actual information about how militaries in 2070 work). That's all part and parcel for Shadowrun books these days.

But War! was the book that gave us dungeon-crawling through Auschwitz to find artifacts that shouldn't exist there in the first place complete with the need to kill pissed off Jewish (and presumably gypsy, homosexual, pacifists, and everyone else the Nazis killed during the Holocaust) ghosts.

The fact that using a death camp as an adventure hook was even conceived is astonishing enough, but it is nothing compared to the fact that at no point along the way that idea wasn't stomped into the ground. It is truly mind-boggling that nobody at CGL or Topps or wherever asked, "are you out of your mind?"

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Ah, I've already explained my feelings on mixing physics and magic. Buh-bye! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)




If the group is heavy enough to break your Slow, then using Slow on them to stop them is a really bad idea.

Unless the group is formed by 3+ Trolls all packed together, then you will be able to cast slow on most people. Also, 3+ targets packed together screams for grenades (specially the monofilament ones) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beret.gif)

[CanRay]

Well, I'll put it this way. I read it because it was the only book in the ER Waiting Room that was published in the last decade, and have yet to pick it up again.

Every other Shadowrun book I have has at least had three full reads.

Even the novels. Yes, even the bad ones.

[Stahlseele]

With the novels, this becomes more understandable, if you have them all . .
because if you have read them all from number 1 to the last cover to cover, you most likely have forgotten what the first ones were like again . .

[CanRay]

I used to have almost all the novels. Stupid moving provinces.

As for War! No, I can't suggest it as a purchase. Sorry CGL folks, but it is fail.

[Stahlseele]

The german one, on the other hand . . *runs for his life*

[CanRay]

The german one, on the other hand . . *runs for his life*

So says the man who confessed that he's a Twink. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

Not that there's anything wrong with that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[CanRay]

'Course not, his profile says he's an Immortal Elf. That should have gone without saying, really. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Stahlseele]

'Course not, his profile says he's an Immortal Elf. That should have gone without saying, really. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Hnngg, when did that happen? <.<;,

[Magus]

I miss Fortune The Original Immoral Elf

[longbowrocks]

Hnngg, when did that happen? <.<;,

At post #9k?

[Stahlseele]

I miss Fortune The Original Immoral Elf

Yeah, shame about the old cookie . .

At post #9k?

i did not notice, i was happy with there being Great Dragon over there <.<