[X] My Assistant

[Yerameyahu]

Also, you have way too many programs, especially if you're not going to actually use them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Recon drones are hella cheap; drop some of the tertiary programs and get some micro and mini drones.

In summary: it's not a rigger without drones, not a hacker without using programs, and not a face without CHA, Skills, and DP-adders.

And bump your physicals to 2, it's not that hard. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

@Tymeaus Jalynsfein#
Beeing locked up in the matrix while your body is dependend on artificial nutrition can do that to you. (Actually will do that to you)

(If you need to do it through the blood stream because the digestive organs started failing, it gets even worse)

And yet, this is not required or even common for most, if not all Hackers or Technomancers. Technomancers really only need this when on a Resonance Quest. So, I do not really see the necessity of such a thing. Most people are going to be average in stats (Technomancer or not). That is just the way it is.

[Irion]

@Tymeaus Jalynsfein
It is a common story for how people became Technomancer. If you play after the crash 2.0.

I am not saying every technomancer has to I am just saying it is a plausible explaination for every Technomancer.

[longbowrocks]

Which is why it does not work very well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif) It is hard to combine archtypes into an effective whole, especially if you have never created/played the ones you are trying to combine. Hacker/Rigger is rather easy to accomplish, as they use many of the same skills and stats. Throwing Face into the Mix makes it a little harder (No Cross skills/Attributes), but can be done. Just not usually as your first attempt at it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) And as a note... Combining them into a single whole will usually result in a character that is not as good as a Dedicated version of what you are combining.

However, Good Luck on the attempt. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Why does it not work? Is it all the things I listed as "droppoed because I couldn't afford it", or is it something else? I haven't really used the 5 IP yet, so I might get rid of the simsense booster in exchange for more equipment. In particular, some programs that I can crack (our group decided to use 'you can patch your degrading programs with your legal corporate ones').

[longbowrocks]

Also, you have way too many programs, especially if you're not going to actually use them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Recon drones are hella cheap; drop some of the tertiary programs and get some micro and mini drones.

Actually, I decided to drop some programs yesterday. I'd been on the fence about data bomb and defuse for a while; disarm can go; I can drop attack in favor of nuke. This is starting to clear up now that I've had some time to reflect. Any other suggestions, or programs I was wrong to drop?

In summary: it's not a rigger without drones, not a hacker without using programs, and not a face without CHA, Skills, and DP-adders.

Ah, I see. Drones are cheap. I'll be getting some right after I get some warez programs. I'm making a hefty pilot program to give a guy in hopes he'll become my link into a warez group contact.
The face will be fine. I'm just about to buy empathy software, which both ggodo and I understand doesn't apply to everything, but defeinitely does enough. Mostly I've been playing face with a dice pool of about 12 though (edge).

And bump your physicals to 2, it's not that hard. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Ech. I can see the tremendous bonus to many resistance tests, but I just can't do it. I'll wait till later in the game, once I have enough resources. For now I'll rely on medicine and symbiotes.

[LurkerOutThere]

Hey longbow, i sympathize with getting stuck on support guys duties. I still think like many others your concept is flawed, thematicly I can't see many teams wanting to relay on a hacker that can't come into the meat at all. At least with an AI you can carry them in on a comlink even though it's risky as all hell.

My honest advice though if you want to keep the face in the equation, switch gears and go a charisma based technomancer stream, technomancers make great drone riggers too because of their access to machine sprites, hell on the whole their one of the best rounded streams when it coems to sprite access. You'll be hurting for BP's but your going to be doing that regardless and the ability to thread will help boost your shortcomigns to start with. My advice is concentrate on face and hacker first with a smattering of coding and registering and leave the rigging to the sprites at least to start.

[longbowrocks]

Hey longbow, i sympathize with getting stuck on support guys duties. I still think like many others your concept is flawed, thematicly I can't see many teams wanting to relay on a hacker that can't come into the meat at all. At least with an AI you can carry them in on a comlink even though it's risky as all hell.

My honest advice though if you want to keep the face in the equation, switch gears and go a charisma based technomancer stream, technomancers make great drone riggers too because of their access to machine sprites, hell on the whole their one of the best rounded streams when it coems to sprite access. You'll be hurting for BP's but your going to be doing that regardless and the ability to thread will help boost your shortcomigns to start with. My advice is concentrate on face and hacker first with a smattering of coding and registering and leave the rigging to the sprites at least to start.

I think it was decided in a thread our GM started up that sprites coudn't rig without the AI quality. I don't want to try overturning that decision without a good reason. The technomancer sounds like a better idea than what I have, but I've already spent so much time creating this character that I'm just going to stick with this for now. It doesn't look like I'm in any danger of dying yet (we had our first run yesterday).

*Oh god, I just acknowledged that an emerged character would be a good idea. Next thing you know I'll be playing awakened characters. I definitely need to fix up this character so I have enough leeway to destroy a mage or two after this next session. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

They can Command… which is exactly what your 'rigger' PC was gonna do.

[longbowrocks]

But do any of them have gunnery skill? I guess I could build my own. Then again, he did say to only do that for a while, and I only plan to command for a while until I can comfortably defend myself.

[redwulf25]

But do any of them have gunnery skill? I guess I could build my own. Then again, he did say to only do that for a while, and I only plan to command for a while until I can comfortably defend myself.

If the sprite is using command it doesn't need the gunnery skill, the drone will be using it's auto-softs.

[longbowrocks]

If the sprite is using command it doesn't need the gunnery skill, the drone will be using it's auto-softs.

Eh~ Kinda fudging the rules there. And assuming that the drone can use its autosofts to aim when your sprite is using a virtual joystick to aim, and not expecting any interference. Maybe if you run the autosoft on the sprite as a CF, but then it's still a bit weird.

[Fortinbras]

Proxy through a drone at the edge of the cage. I already take most of my matrix actions through a proxy, and use hot sim to counter the -1 penalty. That's another I forgot to get in my last minute rush to finish my character. A sim rig.

Once that drone enters the cage, it loses it's connection to you. If the drone is outside of the cage, it can't hack anything inside and on runs you often don't have time to dismantle such a structure.

I'm not trying to rag on you, but I'm saying that I, as a GM, would have a field day with a character not on site with the rest of the team.
When my team does runs, there is usually an offline Matrix node that the hacker has to be onsite to access. I use faraday cages, Wi-Fi inhibitors, signal jammers and even a Jamming spell on a sustained focus once.
On top of that I would have your drones in a constant Signal Warfare battle with every Tom, Dick and Technomancer who popped up. You could be faced with loosing control of the cyborg you, which takes you out of the game, just because someone jams it's signal or rolls really well on a Command roll.
On top of that, everything you do is being broadcast through the air at an incredible signal rating. All KE, or anyone on half the planet, has to do is get a decent Decrypt program and all your exploits are on the record.
On top of that, everything you do is traceable back to where your meat body is, where there is, presumably, little in the way of defense compared to the rest of the party. Even with a proxy server, you are still totally traceable. Don't believe me? Make a post entitled "You can't trace a hacker through a proxy server" and see what response that elicits.

There is just too much stuff that a GM can do to really bollocks this guy over and I'd hate to see that happen to a character you like.

[Yerameyahu]

Esp. when it's built in such bad faith. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[ggodo]

Oop, posted the wrong thing in this thread. I would like to remind you that there may be some travel involved in the future, so you had best have a way to deal with that.

[longbowrocks]

Once that drone enters the cage, it loses it's connection to you. If the drone is outside of the cage, it can't hack anything inside and on runs you often don't have time to dismantle such a structure.

It's the cage walls that prevent the signal, not the mechanical disconnect. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) If there is a door, I position my repeater drone in the doorway. If there isn't a door, we can't get in. Definitely not stealthy, and definitely not secure, but people don't exactly put faraday cages in every building in Seattle, and I need to give up something to be practically immune to ritual spells.

On top of that, everything you do is being broadcast through the air at an incredible signal rating. All KE, or anyone on half the planet, has to do is get a decent Decrypt program and all your exploits are on the record.

I didn't realize until today that all my drone actions had to be direct link in mutual signal range. At least it sounds that way in the FAQ, although I'm getting different readings from the core book. They also need to get a decent Decrypt program, and have decent skill. Later it will be R10, but that's low on my to do list.

On top of that I would have your drones in a constant Signal Warfare battle with every Tom, Dick and Technomancer who popped up. You could be faced with loosing control of the cyborg you, which takes you out of the game, just because someone jams it's signal or rolls really well on a Command roll.

Meh, I don't run the defense program on my drones, so I'll replace it with ECCM.
I might also use directional antennas.
In the end, don't worry. I'll be jumping in soon. Or once it starts getting tough. Either way. I only have one drone active at a time anyway. The others are in the car or something, and if someone jumps into the car, they jump into the car. Not much more I can do about that by being with the group when they aren't with the car.
If I really want to stick with command, I might make a super-secure drone, install faraday cages on my others, and upload new scripts through wired links if we run into complications. Or I could have them all slaved to my secure drone by wire constantly.

On top of that, everything you do is traceable back to where your meat body is, where there is, presumably, little in the way of defense compared to the rest of the party. Even with a proxy server, you are still totally traceable. Don't believe me? Make a post entitled "You can't trace a hacker through a proxy server" and see what response that elicits.

I wasn't aware this game had evolved to a point where +4 to a threshold was insignificant. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

I actually thought I was mostly making actions through the matrix, with a high signal as backup if I ran into trouble. I'll rethink this as I keep working on this guy.

[longbowrocks]

Oop, posted the wrong thing in this thread. I would like to remind you that there may be some travel involved in the future, so you had best have a way to deal with that.

Workin' on it. I have enough bonuses that I can probably spread my skills more.

[LurkerOutThere]

Why would sprites not be able to rig drones? I am aware of the line of logic that AI's need the drone origin quality to rig but sprites are not AI's and vice versa.

[longbowrocks]

Why would sprites not be able to rig drones? I am aware of the line of logic that AI's need the drone origin quality to rig but sprites are not AI's and vice versa.

I didn't do any research on it, but here's the topic if you want:
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=34931
*the topic where it came up last.

[Yerameyahu]

Why would they? Do they have control rigs? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[LurkerOutThere]

I read that thread, my point stands, sprites are not agents or AI, just because an AI can't rig a drone doesn't mean a sprite could not. In fact it would be counter intuitive if they couldn't as machine sprites wouldn't need the ability to get autsofots as complex forms. Also this is fourth edition a control rig is no longer required to rig things.

Edit: Damn, shouldn't type tired.

[Yerameyahu]

I was just teasing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) The question is, what makes you think they *can* rig? Agents can't, plain AI can't, etc.

[Fortinbras]

I need to give up something to be practically immune to ritual spells.

You are far more vulnerable to Trace programs, which give your physical location. A Watcher spirit working as a spotter then makes you just as vulnerable to Ritual magic. If you are truly worried about ritual magic samples, I might recommend the Genewipe genetic augmentation.

I didn't realize until today that all my drone actions had to be direct link in mutual signal range. At least it sounds that way in the FAQ, although I'm getting different readings from the core book. They also need to get a decent Decrypt program, and have decent skill. Later it will be R10, but that's low on my to do list.

Yes, you need mutual signal range for most drone actions. Specifically, inhabiting that drone. Your computer and it's computer need to be able to talk to each other. You can route that communication through the Matrix, but then you would be using the signal rating of the connecting device for the purposes of jamming.

In terms of a Decrypt, even a decent one isn't necessary. You are broadcasting your signal constantly, so only a few rolls are needed to match the hits you got. As a GM, I'd have not only KE, but any number of folks just keeping an ear out for broadcast signals throughout the metroplex. You could make enemies you don't even know about.
Moreover, if you are hired to steal a piece of paydata from company A and give it to Company B, then when you hack it out of the mainframe with the team, it gets sent through the air and back to you. what if some CB enthusiast gets a hold of it and sells it to Company B before you do?
As does all the commlink communication between your team get sent all over the planet.

Meh, I don't run the defense program on my drones, so I'll replace it with ECCM.
I might also use directional antennas.
In the end, don't worry. I'll be jumping in soon. Or once it starts getting tough. Either way. I only have one drone active at a time anyway. The others are in the car or something, and if someone jumps into the car, they jump into the car. Not much more I can do about that by being with the group when they aren't with the car.
If I really want to stick with command, I might make a super-secure drone, install faraday cages on my others, and upload new scripts through wired links if we run into complications. Or I could have them all slaved to my secure drone by wire constantly.

Again, as a GM, a directional antenna would tell me exactly where you are. Like pointing a shiny arrow to your location.
Being with the team makes Electronic Warfare easier as you are within mutual signal range easier. If you only have one drone and you're jumped into it, all a competing rigger needs to do is use a strong jamming signal and you get dumped while they get control of the robot you. Now your team has a Trojan Horse.
It's what I'd do, anyway.

I wasn't aware this game had evolved to a point where +4 to a threshold was insignificant. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

I actually thought I was mostly making actions through the matrix, with a high signal as backup if I ran into trouble. I'll rethink this as I keep working on this guy.

Your average Hacker is rolling 12 dice. A +4 means one extra roll. If all of your actions are through the Matrix, all the time, that's nothing.

I'm just giving you a heads up when the GM has a cadre of KE officers bust down the door of your meat body's home.
You are giving yourself unnecessary complications. The idea of the remote hacker or rigger is not new, but they rarely last because there is just too much going on. When you are with the team, the mage and sammies can keep you safe from the flying bullets. When you are on your own you're... well on your own.

Pity the runner all by his lonesome.

[longbowrocks]

You are far more vulnerable to Trace programs, which give your physical location. A Watcher spirit working as a spotter then makes you just as vulnerable to Ritual magic. If you are truly worried about ritual magic samples, I might recommend the Genewipe genetic augmentation.

I'm not so worried about genetic samples, since those don't sound so stupid to me. They're definitely more likely, but I just can't tolerate the thought of dying because of a symbolic link. I mean, really. The mage found a picture of me? The mage heard a good enough description of me from a guy who saw me to draw a picture of me? God, I'll keep a dagger on hand to stab myself in the chest before some that idiotic ends my character.

Yes, you need mutual signal range for most drone actions. Specifically, inhabiting that drone. Your computer and it's computer need to be able to talk to each other. You can route that communication through the Matrix, but then you would be using the signal rating of the connecting device for the purposes of jamming.

It's always good to check everything, so could you quote where it says that you cannot use the matrix and must use mutual signal range for rigging?

In terms of a Decrypt, even a decent one isn't necessary. You are broadcasting your signal constantly, so only a few rolls are needed to match the hits you got. As a GM, I'd have not only KE, but any number of folks just keeping an ear out for broadcast signals throughout the metroplex. You could make enemies you don't even know about.
Moreover, if you are hired to steal a piece of paydata from company A and give it to Company B, then when you hack it out of the mainframe with the team, it gets sent through the air and back to you. what if some CB enthusiast gets a hold of it and sells it to Company B before you do?
As does all the commlink communication between your team get sent all over the planet.

There's the directional antenna (assuming we're talking wireless), so they'd need to be in a specific zone, which would probably cover most of the complex we were infiltrating, so that's not to difficult (well, they would have to be within the constantly moving band between my signal and the party's signal being sent, so maybe a bit tougher). Outside of combat though (which is when we generally receive the information we were sent to collect) I can just spend every action encrypting and re-encrypting my signal. It's not like I have anything else to do with my simple actions. I could also let them into a bait commlink with a databomb with black IC attached to an "important file". Possibilities in the matrix are endless.

Again, as a GM, a directional antenna would tell me exactly where you are. Like pointing a shiny arrow to your location.
Being with the team makes Electronic Warfare easier as you are within mutual signal range easier. If you only have one drone and you're jumped into it, all a competing rigger needs to do is use a strong jamming signal and you get dumped while they get control of the robot you. Now your team has a Trojan Horse.
It's what I'd do, anyway.

The GM always knows. He sets up the world. On the other hand, I can just cover my directional antenna with a paper hat to hide the direction it's facing. I doubt security will want to waste time running in a large circle around our party sniffing for signals while we're accomplishing the mission. As for jamming, I'll just get ECCM rating 6 until I can upgrade my drone even more and raise the rating. Not like the signal can be overcome either way when it's effectively 11+ against jamming.

What to do if that is overridden though... Ah, equip my drone with a commlink. I'll put a rating 1 agent or something on the commlink with a subscription to my drone's node. If the subscription is interrupted, the agent should switch the drone's wireless to 'off' and let it run on the scripts that I've loaded up pre-mission, or its own pilot. If that's not enough, then the commlink is a microdrone, which hits a manual "wireless off" switch.

Your average Hacker is rolling 12 dice. A +4 means one extra roll. If all of your actions are through the Matrix, all the time, that's nothing.

one extra roll means at least one roll. Hopefully I get some chance to recognize he's tracking me, or at least he needs to roll against my stealth first. In that case I'll just use nuke, and let him roll 2 dice all day since he'll probably be too obstinate to reboot.

I'm just giving you a heads up when the GM has a cadre of KE officers bust down the door of your meat body's home.
You are giving yourself unnecessary complications. The idea of the remote hacker or rigger is not new, but they rarely last because there is just too much going on. When you are with the team, the mage and sammies can keep you safe from the flying bullets. When you are on your own you're... well on your own.

But the mages! Maybe I should have taken paranoia instead of prejudice.
I didn't think of this until just now, but what's going to make anyone think there's a remote hacker, or a rigger in the drone? Why wouldn't they assume one of our party is the hacker? You've already mentioned that the remote hacker idea has been done, and beaten every time, so I imagine it's not common in the shadowrunning world.

Pity the runner all by his lonesome.

Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered weak and weary,
Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore,
While I nodded, nearly napping, suddenly I thought: "Damn I'm lonely, but at least I'm safe from mages". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif)

I couldn't think of anything else to say to this, but I wanted to reply to all your comments. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

You realize that your obsession with ritual magic is unhealthy, right? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Your characters should indeed take a negative quality to reflect it, hehe.

[longbowrocks]

You realize that your obsession with ritual magic is unhealthy, right? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Your characters should indeed take a negative quality to reflect it, hehe.

That's something I can take some advice on. Any suggestions? I've already reached the negative quality cap, but I can always take more to reflect character as long as I don't get BP for it.