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[longbowrocks]

I came up with this idea during our last session, and we all cracked up.
Originally, I just said: "Have a drone, have an agent with command, infinitely copy the agent, and viola! Inifnite attacks per round!"

When I got home, I looked up the rules, and I think this would work with a few reservations:
1. Each agent using command requires a subscription to what it's commanding.
2. Each agent needs a different ID if I want to run them all from the same node. Let's just forget about this though. I can patch them with a one week extended test, have them access the drone from various nodes, or just load them all onto my persona.

So here's the plan:

• Get a drone. Upgrade it to response 6, or add modular electronics, and then upgrade to response 6 (I think we're still arguing over whether this is necessary in a different thread).
• Get pilot 6 for the drone (max active subscriptions = pilot * 2 = 12).
• Get a rating 6 agent.
• Crack agent, and copy into 12 agents.
• Load all agents with R10 command, optimized R4.
• In combat, each agent commands drone to fire, resulting in 12 shots per IP, 36 per combat turn.

[Yerameyahu]

Nope. Seriously, longbowrocks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[longbowrocks]

Whoa. Where's the specific problem here? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rollin.gif)

Don't worry about our campaign. For actual gaming I just stick with looking up all the possible bonus for something rather than actually bending the game this way.

[Irion]

Nothing can have more than 4 IPs in flesh/steel.

[Stahlseele]

I don't think this is about IP's.
It's more about several dozend agents all getting one or two IP's and all getting actions in their IP's and all using them to make the drone do the same thing(fire) again and again O.o

[Fatum]

When you command a drone, it still performs actions. The number of actions it can perform per turn is still limited by the usual rules.

[Yerameyahu]

Stahlseele's answer is probably the easiest. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) There *is* no 6th IP, or more.

[longbowrocks]

Nothing can have more than 4 IPs in flesh/steel.

The drone isn't using any IP's. That logic breaks down because the drone is just a channel for the IP's of the Agents, which are actually using their IP's. That's why drones can channel 5 IP's when used in hot sim by some riggers, even though the drone acting on its own should only have 3. I might even argue that this was an intended loophole (albeit not intended to be used to such a degree).

It's just hilarious when you think of a SS main gun nailing 36 guys in three seconds from 50 kilomters away (I can't think of how that could happen though, since it takes too many actions to negate penalties enough to hit anything). At first I liked improved range finding, but then I realized it probably means "-6 for extreme range reduced to -5", not "-6 for extreme reduced to -3 for long".

[longbowrocks]

I don't think this is about IP's.
It's more about several dozend agents all getting one or two IP's and all getting actions in their IP's and all using them to make the drone do the same thing(fire) again and again O.o

I don't think I can get even a baker's dozen. A round dozen seems to be the limit if we say rating 6 pilot is the limit. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[longbowrocks]

When you command a drone, it still performs actions. The number of actions it can perform per turn is still limited by the usual rules.

You're remote controlling it. It can have 5 IP's by remote command that way. The only challenge I can think of is that the remote control would overlap for all 12 Agents, but there is no rule preventing it, and all the rules supporting it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

No, there are no rules supporting it. One agent can maybe command a drone: total 3 IPs. That's it.

5 IPs is only for a maxed-out real hacker in hot VR. There are only 5 IPs in a turn. You can't get around that, even if you argued that 2 agents together could get 5—and you can't argue that, because that's just the classic question of 'what happens if I command a drone, then let it move for itself?' The answer is 'it doesn't work'.

[longbowrocks]

If you were looking for something more broken, there's always "cheap 20 body bus with 6 flexible weapon mounts". A full auto burst with +53 DV isn't too shabby. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[longbowrocks]

Just sayin'. There's no mention of IP's in remote control. The limiter is the number of subscriptions the drone can hold. The game has no no rules describing the amount of time a drone spends executing actions sent to it by the rigger. I maintain the drone simply acts on the rigger's command, and then awaits more commands.

[Yerameyahu]

That is not the limiter. Remote Control is subject to all normal initiative rules. In fact, the subscription count can go much higher.

[Fortinbras]

SR4A p. 245
Drone Initiative equals Pilot rating + Response, and they receive two extra
Initiative Passes (three total).

On IP 1 the drone takes an action as it commanded to do. Later in IP 1, the same drone is given a command to fire again. It cannot because it has already taken it's action.
Repeat twice.
On IP 4 neither the Agents or the Drone have any more Initiative passes.
The Command is issued is to the drone's Pilot. The Pilot only has 3 IPs.

In addition, optimization to a Response of 10 would be 96k nuyen with a Availability of 40F.

[Fatum]

You're remote controlling it. It can have 5 IP's by remote command that way. The only challenge I can think of is that the remote control would overlap for all 12 Agents, but there is no rule preventing it, and all the rules supporting it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

There's no way to have more than 4 IPs in Physical.
I don't believe there's anything in the rules saying that outright, but this bit:

This method of control is a Matrix action. Controlling a drone is a Complex Action, even if the drone would be performing a Simple Action such as firing a semi-automatic weapon or using the Take Aim action.

leads me to believe that the drone is still performing actions when you issue commands for it. So, once it's performed a complex action this IP, it can't do anything else.

[longbowrocks]

In fact, the subscription count can go much higher.

Well, not for the persona as far as I can see, but I guess the node can support more. I misread that.

As far as actions go; new rigger, new action. Drone actions have no part in it.
"Unless already executing an ongoing action on the rigger’s behalf,
a remote controlled drone acts only when it receives commands (ie. on
the rigger’s action)."

[longbowrocks]

SR4A p. 245
Drone Initiative equals Pilot rating + Response, and they receive two extra
Initiative Passes (three total).

On IP 1 the drone takes an action as it commanded to do. Later in IP 1, the same drone is given a command to fire again. It cannot because it has already taken it's action.
Repeat twice.
On IP 4 neither the Agents or the Drone have any more Initiative passes.
The Command is issued is to the drone's Pilot. The Pilot only has 3 IPs.

That's what we're arguing about. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

In addition, optimization to a Response of 10 would be 96k nuyen with a Availability of 40F.

No need. I optimized the R10 command program to run on a system of 6.

[longbowrocks]

There's no way to have more than 4 IPs in Physical.

Command and jumped in actions are matrix actions. If the rigger has 5 matrix IPs, he can translate those to physical through the drone, the that's a different argument.

I don't believe there's anything in the rules saying that outright, but this bit:
leads me to believe that the drone is still performing actions when you issue commands for it. So, once it's performed a complex action this IP, it can't do anything else.

That's just detailing that it takes you more time to do things since you can't get the more natural feeling of being jumped in. In effect, it keeps you from zooming in and headshotting someone in the same IP remotely, or from firing twice in one IP remotely.

[Yerameyahu]

We're not arguing about it, though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Fatum]

As far as actions go; new rigger, new action. Drone actions have no part in it.
"Unless already executing an ongoing action on the rigger’s behalf,
a remote controlled drone acts only when it receives commands (ie. on
the rigger’s action)."

Again, the drone counts as having spent its action. Not the pilot, the chassis itself.

Command and jumped in actions are matrix actions. If the rigger has 5 matrix IPs, he can translate those to physical through the drone, the that's a different argument.

No. 4 IPs maximum on Physical. It's explicitly written in the rules. You can go spend that fifth IP elsewhere in the Matrix.

[Yerameyahu]

It's not explicit enough, sadly. But yes, it certainly is clear to the non-abusers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[longbowrocks]

We're not arguing about it, though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Fine. I'm saying you're wrong, and, if you feel this sounds better than arguing, you're saying I'm wrong. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[ShadowWalker]

from SR4A page 245:

Issuing Commands
You give a short command to the drone or other device with the
Issuing Command action (p. 245). The drone attempts to execute
those orders autonomously on its own action phase. You need to be
able to communicate with the drone, via the Matrix for example, but
do not need to be subscribed to the drone.

It's very explicit, the drone does it on it's own action phase. Not on yours, not on your agents but on it's own.

[Ascalaphus]

Longbowrocks: you give orders to the drone, but receiving orders doesn't give it any IPs. As soon as it gets a normal IP, it'll pick an order from its backlog to execute.