[X] My Assistant

[hermit]

damn, now the idea of using Cthulhu is sounding really great.
a good ghost story turned into nightmare fuel would be a blast.
and would it be too much to ask that players create new characters that are totally disposable, considering what they'll run into won't be at all reluctant to eradicate them?

Try the Cthulhutech books, for easy Shadowrun conversion. You'll find good horror-themed adventures at the end of each supplement (all have short prewritten scenarios in them using their contents) that practically are cyberpunk Cthulhu already. With some, you just have to replace Chrysalis with Aztech and Nyarlathotheb's Avatar with Darke. Of course Trail of Cthulhu is also easily convertable, as are most detective-themed Mythos adventures (replace 'desperate person walking into PIs office" with "desperate Johnson you meet in a pub").

For Cthulhutech, I recommend Dark Passions and the core book for easy to convert scenarios. I ran most of these and it was pretty effective. All are nightmare fuel to a degree, the harshest being the abduction thing in Dark Passions. Of course, it's best to stick with the Shadow War (Tagers) adventures, since converting the humanity/space horrors war with mecha to SR really doesn't make much sense.

[Ascalaphus]

Well, it's not just the angsting (though that IS an issue, that and moronic power tripping). WoD tends to attract a certain crowd over here. Also, the game is fundamentally anthropocentric, the world is deeply moralistic, and the core of the (Vampire and Werewolf) game is moaning your loss of humanity while reveling in your outsiderdom (at least, that's the impression the VtM core book makes on me). There are other, much more interesting parts of WoD - Changeling, Hunter - but I just don't like, personally, this anthropocentrism and the biased, moralising nature of the world put me off at a fundamental level.

I like the Humanity theme, but my take on it is a bit different. It's a choice: you can do all manner of "evil" things, and that gives you more maneuvering room than people who stick with high Humanity. But to get that freedom you have to get uncomfortably close to being a slavering animal. But if you don't, then people will take advantage of you because you're "soft". Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

It gives me a real kick if I can come up with some ingenious way to foil my enemies without having to sink any deeper. On the other hand, I also enjoy taking the Boondock Saints style moral high ground, and going all "destroying them justifies the means" on them.

Also, I like the Frenzy concept; I enjoy playing characters who are very controlled and introspective most of the time, but sometimes frustrations just boil over and a-rampaging I go.

I also like the magical powers in the core (Camarilla) clans in VtM. They're very flavorful, it really makes vampires stealthy-social parasite-predators.

---

What I think is most applicable from Vampire to SR would be vampires as masterminds: well aware of what they have to lose in a fight (eternal life), so even though they're pretty strong, they prefer to manipulate people from behind the scenes. SR just tends to state that there are puppetmasters; Vampire really goes to town on that theme.

[hermit]

I like the Humanity theme, but my take on it is a bit different. It's a choice: you can do all manner of "evil" things, and that gives you more maneuvering room than people who stick with high Humanity. But to get that freedom you have to get uncomfortably close to being a slavering animal. But if you don't, then people will take advantage of you because you're "soft". Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

See, that's my problem with this system. What I strongly disapprove of is the WoD defining morality in absolutes, in game stats, and then judging all actions according to a set of Puritan moral values I neither share nor like.

What I think is most applicable from Vampire to SR would be vampires as masterminds: well aware of what they have to lose in a fight (eternal life), so even though they're pretty strong, they prefer to manipulate people from behind the scenes.

Actually, that was the core idea of all SR immortals - dragons, elves, infected, even spirits to a degree - until Year of the Comet, when the writers team introduced Ghostwalker and wrote up all Great Dragons some form of unstoppable Godzilla monster that laugh at being bombarded with cruise kissiles. Tom Dowd once summed it up as (paraphrased) dragons were used to be top of the food chain and then woke up in a world that has AAMs. Too bad they strayed from the path to make Great Dragons all but unkillable.

However, in the ranks of SR immortals, vampires are hardly in the powerful position they are with the WoD, which has neither spirits, nor cybered-up mortals, nor megacorps with vast magical ressources or millenia-old immortal mages. All vampires in SR are pretty young by SR standards, and hence, just lack the KArma to become that powerful.

It's important to keep this in mind when porting stuff from VtM: there is no grand vampire conspiracy running the world. Instead, it is hiding from the forces that do and hopes they don't notice. That's a total game changer for VtM stuff, changing the Masquerade from "keeping the sheep in check" to "hiding from powers that could crush us like insects".

[Mäx]

For Cthulhutech, I recommend Dark Passions and the core book for easy to convert scenarios

Dark Passions also has few intresting cults like the Dionysus club, that could be imported to SR quite easily.

That's a total game changer for VtM stuff, changing the Masquerade from "keeping the sheep in check" to "hiding from powers that could crush us like insects".

I dont know, not getting annihilated is pretty much the reason for Masquerade in VtM too, as the inquisition showed the vampires that either they hide their existance or get wiped out.

[hermit]

Dark Passions also has few intresting cults like the Dionysus club, that could be imported to SR quite easily.

Or the Mother Earth Cult. SURGED furries. Who worship a demon. Yep, that's useful indeed. I am not being sarcastic, neither about demonic furries (there's even art of them!) nor about that being useful.

The Dionysus cultalso is nice, of course. Especially the gradual corruption angle.

I dont know, not getting annihilated is pretty much the reason for Masquerade in VtM too, as the inquisition showed the vampires that either they hide their existance or get wiped out.

The vampires in VtM run the world pretty successfully for that...

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Well, it's not just the angsting (though that IS an issue, that and moronic power tripping). WoD tends to attract a certain crowd over here. Also, the game is fundamentally anthropocentric, the world is deeply moralistic, and the core of the (Vampire and Werewolf) game is moaning your loss of humanity while reveling in your outsiderdom (at least, that's the impression the VtM core book makes on me). There are other, much more interesting parts of WoD - Changeling, Hunter - but I just don't like, personally, this anthropocentrism and the biased, moralising nature of the world put me off at a fundamental level.

VtM is OLD WOD... You should look a bit at the NWOD... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[hermit]

Never saw anyone play it. Is VtR not canceled yet? I heared it spectacularily crashed because they actually wanted to un-angst and un-derp the vampires there.

As for nWoD, I have the Hunter game lying about soeplace, and bought that social combat supplement because I like the idea. Mostly, though, people play WoD here, for all I know though.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Never saw anyone play it. Is VtR not canceled yet? I heared it spectacularily crashed because they actually wanted to un-angst and un-derp the vampires there.

As for nWoD, I have the Hunter game lying about soeplace, and bought that social combat supplement because I like the idea. Mostly, though, people play WoD here, for all I know though.

NWOD is going Strong. Requiem, Forsaken, Created, Lost, Awakening, Hunter, Geist. The Limited Lines have stopped production, but there are still books coming out for the Core Lines (Requiem, Forsaken and Awakening).

There was a lot of anger when the New lines came out because they were not OWOD. Fortunately, the quality was very high (and has remained so), and the settings/system worked better, at least in my opinion, than the OWOD Settings/System/Metaplot did. The Metaplot got old for me. Not that I do not Like OWOD, I have most of the Books. It is just that NWOD has so much more potential, in my opinion.

YMMV, as always. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Ascalaphus]

See, that's my problem with this system. What I strongly disapprove of is the WoD defining morality in absolutes, in game stats, and then judging all actions according to a set of Puritan moral values I neither share nor like.

There are arguments for and against using stats to track Humanity, as well as the way humane-ness is defined, true.

It's important to keep this in mind when porting stuff from VtM: there is no grand vampire conspiracy running the world. Instead, it is hiding from the forces that do and hopes they don't notice. That's a total game changer for VtM stuff, changing the Masquerade from "keeping the sheep in check" to "hiding from powers that could crush us like insects".

The whole idea behind the Masquerade is that "if they ever find out what we're doing, they'll kill us all", and that makes perfect sense in SR too. In VtM vampires need to keep clear of werewolves, inquisitors/witch hunters, mages, and random mortals, including the police. The vampires are at their best when they're using their abilities to manipulate their enemies into fighting each other instead of the vampires. Vampire powers are particularly good for intrigue (invisibility, telepathy, changing memories...), but they have trouble keeping up with a lot of other creatures (werewolves, mages, most of which wouldn't like vampires, people with Faith) in sheer firepower.

I don't have much experience with nWoD.. I bought the core book and Requiem core, but I didn't really like it aesthetically (too glossy), and I was seriously pissed off they recycled names from oWoD - for me that's really annoying, it causes conceptual bleed-over. But there were interesting new concepts in it, and I might give it another chance someday.

[hermit]

There are arguments for and against using stats to track Humanity, as well as the way humane-ness is defined, true.

VtM is taking things way out of my comfort zone n several areas, that being the worst, but not the ony one. At least as far as I remember, been some time since I read that book.

The whole idea behind the Masquerade is that "if they ever find out what we're doing, they'll kill us all", and that makes perfect sense in SR too. In VtM vampires need to keep clear of werewolves, inquisitors/witch hunters, mages, and random mortals, including the police. The vampires are at their best when they're using their abilities to manipulate their enemies into fighting each other instead of the vampires. Vampire powers are particularly good for intrigue (invisibility, telepathy, changing memories...), but they have trouble keeping up with a lot of other creatures (werewolves, mages, most of which wouldn't like vampires, people with Faith) in sheer firepower.

In SR, invisibility is beaten by everybody's vehicle's sensors (because it neither works against radar nor ultrasound), elves have better Charisma than vampires, and mindfuck is open to all mages, including atheists (and a cybersam will give a vampire a hard time, too, if he has the right kind of ammo, because odds are he'll act first). Vampires are a LOT less powerful in SR. It' important to keep that in mind when converting stuff, though I personally don't think such a Masquerade would be possible at all in SR, even scaled down.

[Synner667]

My SR v2 game included Call of Cthulhu, TORG, steampunk, Bubblegum Crisis, Stargate, Hardwired, Chung Kuo and more before it stopped being SR and I moved onto something else.

[hermit]

I really wonder what, despite vague 80s cyberpunk flair, BGC and Shadowrun have in common.

[Prime Mover]

My Shadowrun has always stayed Shadowrun but I've borrowed plenty of plot ideas. And spent a year or more dealing with a longtime Werewolf T/Apocalypse player who really wanted to be a shapeshifter in SR. Ivan (the werewolf hitman) turned out to be an interesting PC with a strong storyline.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

My Shadowrun has always stayed Shadowrun but I've borrowed plenty of plot ideas. And spent a year or more dealing with a longtime Werewolf T/Apocalypse player who really wanted to be a shapeshifter in SR. Ivan (the werewolf hitman) turned out to be an interesting PC with a strong storyline.

Any CONCEPT can work, if you put enough energy into it. Sounds interesting. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[CanRay]

Any CONCEPT can work, if you put enough energy into it.

Sorry, TJ, going to have to disagree with you on that one... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Sorry, TJ, going to have to disagree with you on that one... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Really? How come?
Conceptually, a character should work in almost any circumstances. Not necessarrily talking about gaming here, though that is the main focus. In the end, it is execution of the character that makes it viable or not. Poor execution tends to make poor characters.

I mean hell, look at Jim Butcher and his Codex Alera Series. Who would have thought it would work, other than him? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smokin.gif)

[CanRay]

Really? How come?
Conceptually, a character should work in almost any circumstances. Not necessarrily talking about gaming here, though that is the main focus. In the end, it is execution of the character that makes it viable or not. Poor execution tends to make poor characters.

I mean hell, look at Jim Butcher and his Codex Alera Series. Who would have thought it would work, other than him? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smokin.gif)

Because we're not all Jim Butcher, no matter how much energy and effort we put into something. That's why.

You need raw talent, trained skill, and that certain "Something" to make things work at times. All putting more energy and effort will do if you're lacking those things is teach you that all you have is a lifetime's worth of failure.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Because we're not all Jim Butcher, no matter how much energy and effort we put into something. That's why.

You need raw talent, trained skill, and that certain "Something" to make things work at times. All putting more energy and effort will do if you're lacking those things is teach you that all you have is a lifetime's worth of failure.

While that is definitely true, It does mean that in the right hands, any concept is viable. Which was really all that I originally said. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif) Unfortunately, there is a LOT of poor execution out there. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[CanRay]

Ah, I was pointing out the poor execution, which is the norm.

Hell, look at my work.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Ah, I was pointing out the poor execution, which is the norm.

Hell, look at my work.

Well, your work is generally far from Poor... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[hermit]

Ah, I was pointing out the poor execution, which is the norm.

Hell, look at my work.

Yeah. It reminded me of Findley's Hard Boiled style action stories. Little rough on the edges, and could use some more of these detailed descriptions HB books love so much, but generally comes along very well, has the slightly ironic/tongue-in-cheek tone just right (I loved the descriptions of Nas' problems with his women!). Best SR fanfic I've read in some time. Pity you don't do online gaming, really.

[CanRay]

Might have to give it another shot someday. Not soon, however.

And Findley (*Pours a 40 on the curb*) was a bit of where I was aiming for. Cyberpunk and TechNoir is what I'm aiming for.

And, yeah, it's a bit rough. It's the first bit of writing I've done that I've actually put up for people to read, I'll freely admit that. Apparently I've gotten better with my current Fallout work.

Also, I put it up unpolished. No editing except what's done as it flows out. Literally finish the chapter and Copy-Paste it away. If I were to sit down and do it properly, those edges would go away.

[hermit]

It's not bad edges either, just a bit here'n'there. For unedited work? Hell, look at some of the (supposedly) edited in-print, official SR work. That's very good actually.

Fallout work?

[Grinder]

ImO Cthulhu Horrors, Deadland Horrors and Earthdawn Horrors are all the same
and can be exchanged easily

Only at first glance.

[BnF95]

My players once had to do an entire vr/matrix scenario based on Battletech. You should have heard the laughter as they tried to argue that I had to setup the btech boards for them to "visualize" the fight. I told them that they've played srun for so long without a board, why would they need it now?