[X] My Assistant

[CanRay]

TechNoir?

[Tiralee]

God damn you Canray - now I'm going to have to load up Deus Ex again.


-Tir

[LurkerOutThere]

I've been told by actual intelligence types that Enemy of the State is one of the movies that best "gets" how that kind of organization works and how people inside think. They also hate it and think the entire concept is absurd, but it's miles ahead of 3 Days of the Condor and similar trash.

I always figure it's similar to the feelings bubbleheads have for Crimson Tide.

I've always felt that what really seperates Pink Mohawk from Black Trenchcoat is the expectation of consequences. In a pink mohawk game you shoot your way in, shoot and dash your way out, in Black Trenchcoat you generally sneak your way in, shoot your way out and then burn a lot of your fake sins or anything else that might be compromised. In Black Trenchcoat the opposition is more competent or at least more organized, the world is sometimes a little better....safer..more secure because just as you can't take a vindicator to a mall without expecting to draw attention and have consequences neither can the Halloweeners.

In many ways pink mohawk is the world the old SNES game lives in, Rock Bands and all, Trenchcoat is bit closer to where the old sega game lives.

[LurkerOutThere]

Also on the subject of deus ex

[img]http://www.moronail.net/img/1546_deus_ex[/img]

[MJBurrage]

I've been told by actual intelligence types that Enemy of the State is one of the movies that best "gets" how that kind of organization works and how people inside think. They also hate it and think the entire concept is absurd, but it's miles ahead of 3 Days of the Condor and similar trash.

I am a fan of Enemy of the State primarily because of how accurate much of the film was. The story might be farfetched, but as far as I can tell all of the tech and capabilities are real with only one exception. (the scene where they scan the bottom of a shopping bag by extrapolating from ceiling mounted cameras.)

[CanRay]

No, The Geek Is Loose... And now we know the truth!

Found a better video for The Geek Being Loose!

Honestly, all it's lacking is a keg of beer and a bottle of whiskey to make it even more Metal.

[Adarael]

Re: Enemy of the State - I saw it when it came out on video, but that was 12 years ago or whenever, so my memory is fuzzy... But I seem to recall that the NSA was (in the film) capable of eavesdropping on people having conversations anywhere they were within earshot of ANY phone. And that they also had real-time, 1-2 inch resolution satellite video feeds of anywhere they wanted, whenever they wanted. Both of these are bullshit tech.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Re: Enemy of the State - I saw it when it came out on video, but that was 12 years ago or whenever, so my memory is fuzzy... But I seem to recall that the NSA was (in the film) capable of eavesdropping on people having conversations anywhere they were within earshot of ANY phone. And that they also had real-time, 1-2 inch resolution satellite video feeds of anywhere they wanted, whenever they wanted. Both of these are bullshit tech.

Of Course they are... Real time satellite coverage takes a few minutes to get in place... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Assumming that it is not already there in Geosync in the first place. Enemy of the State assumes that there are more satellites in orbit than may actually be there. Of course, they may, in fact, actually be there. The NSA has a lot of really cool stuff. *waves to the nice NSA boys* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Adarael]

I was simply commenting on more of the stuff that "didn't exist", much like the "extrapolating what was in the bag" commentary.

Without getting too deep into it, what I'll say is that fiction routinely overstimates how fast spy sats can get a picture of something, and their video recording capabilities (which are generally "none whatsoever") and routinely underestimates how accurate they are with radar and thermal imaging.

Also, in terms of geosync sats: they're all SIGINT sats, not IMINT. Currently IMINT sats have to be much closer to earth to be able to resolve halfway decent pictures; anything that far out needs to be held exactly still if it's going to compete (resolution wise) with LEO sats, and we can't really do that due to solar wind and shit.

(Edit: This is not because I know, personally, anything about this shit. This is because one of my best friends from college works for JPL, and is always working with Lockheed on these kinds of things. So I pick her brain.)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I was simply commenting on more of the stuff that "didn't exist", much like the "extrapolating what was in the bag" commentary.

Without getting too deep into it, what I'll say is that fiction routinely overstimates how fast spy sats can get a picture of something, and their video recording capabilities (which are generally "none whatsoever") and routinely underestimates how accurate they are with radar and thermal imaging.

Also, in terms of geosync sats: they're all SIGINT sats, not IMINT. Currently IMINT sats have to be much closer to earth to be able to resolve halfway decent pictures; anything that far out needs to be held exactly still if it's going to compete (resolution wise) with LEO sats, and we can't really do that due to solar wind and shit.

(Edit: This is not because I know, personally, anything about this shit. This is because one of my best friends from college works for JPL, and is always working with Lockheed on these kinds of things. So I pick her brain.)

Heh...

True, what is seen on the TV and in the Movies is often overrated and exaggerated. However, you would be surprised at what exactly can be resolved on Intelligence gathering satellites. *Waves again at the nice Intelligence Analysts*

Again, you would be surprised...

No worries. Also, never forget the crazy array of Intelligence assets that reside in a city. Cameras all over the place, both inside and outside of buildings. Along the roads, and everywhere else. All it takes is a Court Order to gain access to such systems (at least here in the US).

You would be surprised at the amount of data that can be gleaned if the Intelligence services put their mind to it; and if they could ever cooperate, instead of having territorial pissing matches. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[CanRay]

Look at the amount of info you can get out of ATM Machines alone. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Look at the amount of info you can get out of ATM Machines alone. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Indeed, one of many such examples that abound. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Adarael]

True, what is seen on the TV and in the Movies is often overrated and exaggerated. However, you would be surprised at what exactly can be resolved on Intelligence gathering satellites. *Waves again at the nice Intelligence Analysts*
...
You would be surprised at the amount of data that can be gleaned if the Intelligence services put their mind to it; and if they could ever cooperate, instead of having territorial pissing matches. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

No, I assure you, I really wouldn't.

[CanRay]

I used ATMs as an example as their security systems are often updated more often than other systems. How old are those traffic cameras? How well maintained, and so on...

London has more Cameras Per Capita than anywhere (IIRC, at least), but they're all not exactly the most up-to-date systems around either. Ironic in some ways, being the location for Nineteen Eighty-Four...

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I used ATMs as an example as their security systems are often updated more often than other systems. How old are those traffic cameras? How well maintained, and so on...

London has more Cameras Per Capita than anywhere (IIRC, at least), but they're all not exactly the most up-to-date systems around either. Ironic in some ways, being the location for Nineteen Eighty-Four...

No doubt...

Age has an impact, but not as much as you might think. London has so many cameras they are a mess to manage. But, Given time, and effort, the data that these cameras collect can be useful. Not so much in the moment, as it takes time to gain access to them for such purpose, but very useful after the fact.

The problem is always going to be immediacy. If the NSA (or other organization) can gain access to such systems, without the need for such things as following the law, then they have a very beneficial system. The question becomes, is the NSA (or other organization) actually spending the money to connect these systems with backdoors so that they can subvert the system for their own purposes.

I would say Not Likely. But the hidden Conspiracy Theorist in me says that it is definitely possible, even if only minimally so.

[Bigity]

Of Course they are... Real time satellite coverage takes a few minutes to get in place... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Assumming that it is not already there in Geosync in the first place. Enemy of the State assumes that there are more satellites in orbit than may actually be there. Of course, they may, in fact, actually be there. The NSA has a lot of really cool stuff. *waves to the nice NSA boys* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

It's also stupid expensive to retask the existing sats we do have up there out of their normal orbit. There is indeed some awesome intel gathering stuff out there, but the movie is exaggerating in many cases, and outright fabricating stuff in others. But it's probably only a matter of time.

[Bigity]

Heh...

True, what is seen on the TV and in the Movies is often overrated and exaggerated. However, you would be surprised at what exactly can be resolved on Intelligence gathering satellites. *Waves again at the nice Intelligence Analysts*

Again, you would be surprised...

No worries. Also, never forget the crazy array of Intelligence assets that reside in a city. Cameras all over the place, both inside and outside of buildings. Along the roads, and everywhere else. All it takes is a Court Order to gain access to such systems (at least here in the US).

You would be surprised at the amount of data that can be gleaned if the Intelligence services put their mind to it; and if they could ever cooperate, instead of having territorial pissing matches. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Well, think of it like this. During Desert Storm we had sats that would generate a picture so good you could tell the time off of someone's wristwatch. Think about what they could do now. It's scary stuff, but it's also stuff you'd worry yourself to death with if you worried about it actively.

[suoq]

During Desert Storm we had sats that would generate a picture so good you could tell the time off of someone's wristwatch.

You must have served in a different Desert Storm than I did. That being said, there's so many particles in the air between the watch and the sky, that I'm seriously doubting such an optical solution is possible.

[Bigity]

Oh I'm sure it was a perfect combination of factors. The point being, that stuff evolves just as fast as computers do so who knows what's next. I mean they are working on a gun that will explode mini grenades just above a piece of cover such as a wall to get the people crouching behind it. And that's all internal to the gun. Once there is better software that can parse more data out of all kinds of disjointed images, ugh.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

It's also stupid expensive to retask the existing sats we do have up there out of their normal orbit. There is indeed some awesome intel gathering stuff out there, but the movie is exaggerating in many cases, and outright fabricating stuff in others. But it's probably only a matter of time.

Indeed... If you can wait, retasking is ludicrous... You can only retask so many times, afterall...
Sometimes, however, you just have to retask. Probably happens more often than we would like, but not as often as in the movies... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Well, think of it like this. During Desert Storm we had sats that would generate a picture so good you could tell the time off of someone's wristwatch. Think about what they could do now. It's scary stuff, but it's also stuff you'd worry yourself to death with if you worried about it actively.

Been there, seen that...
I don't worry about it all that much, personally. Heh, I am a law abiding citizen, why should I worry? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

You must have served in a different Desert Storm than I did. That being said, there's so many particles in the air between the watch and the sky, that I'm seriously doubting such an optical solution is possible.

Well, Such solutions ARE (and were) possible, but, as has been pointed out, it is not a guarantee. Many factors go into such things, and circumstances can (and do) change minute to minute. But what was available 20 years ago in Desert Storm has only gotten better.

[MJBurrage]

While I am sure that we have surveillance drones that could read a watch while flying high enough to stay hidden, we do not have satelites that could do that.

I remember an astrophysics paper that calculated the max possible spy satellite resolution as 10cm. This is because the limit is not tech based but lens/mirror based, and the largest lens/mirror we could launch in either the shuttle or on any other rocket ever built is only large enough to get 10cm resolution.

I.E. we could build a satellite that could read a watch, but we have no way to get it into space.

[Bigity]

That's possible, I wasn't allowed to know the source of the image (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) The intel pukes were all showing it off to us programmers one day. After it was cleared for release.

[CanRay]

I don't worry about it all that much, personally. Heh, I am a law abiding citizen, why should I worry? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

You're a law abiding citizen... *NOW*. I know how easily it can go from that to criminal in no time.

Case in point, a Canadian Psychiatrist was the guest of honor at a convention in Las Vegas, he was driving across the border when the guard decided to Google the guy's name, just off the top of his head.

And found out that he had taken LSD. Instant and permanent ban from the USA for life.

Thing is, the thing found was a paper written when LSD was being researched, and he had done it as part of research when it was legal. He can't even get a pardon for the crime (As he had committed none), and hadn't even broken any laws, yet is dumped in the same pile of people as have been found with cars stacked to the brim with China White trying to sneak by.

Needless to say, the people at the convention were far from pleased.