Spoofing vs Slaved Commlink Options

[Bearclaw]

OK, so my team, including myself, has all of our commlinks slaved to my external commlink running battle-tac.
The street sam has skinlink on and all cyberware set to DNI only. Meaning that his cyberware only accepts commands from his commlink, and his commlink only accepts commands from my commlink.
The only way he can be messed with wirelessly is to hack the master commlink, right?

As in, spoof doesn't work against his gear, because it's secured, and you can't get to his commlink without going through my commlink. Sounds too simple.

[Ghost_in_the_Sys...]

A only accepts commands from B, and B only accepts commands from C. If you spoof to look like C, then B accepts commands because it thinks the spoof is C. Also, chaining the slaving is pointless, because if a hacker gets control of C or spoofs C, it commands A just as easily as it commands B.

[Makki]

slaved devices are not unhackable or unspoofable afaik. slaving just gives a negative dice modifier

[Ghost_in_the_Sys...]

slaved devices are not unhackable or unspoofable afaik. slaving just gives a negative dice modifier

They are unhackable actually. They have to be spoofed. Well, unless you can get a direct physical line to the device in question, and even then it throws on a serious penalty.

[Bearclaw]

A only accepts commands from B, and B only accepts commands from C. If you spoof to look like C, then B accepts commands because it thinks the spoof is C. Also, chaining the slaving is pointless, because if a hacker gets control of C or spoofs C, it commands A just as easily as it commands B.

I was under the impression that you couldn't spoof commands to commlinks. It doesn't have a pilot rating. Is it considered a peripheral device?

[Ghost_in_the_Sys...]

I was under the impression that you couldn't spoof commands to commlinks. It doesn't have a pilot rating. Is it considered a node?

Basically every device is a node, yes. A commlink is a node, a cyberarm is a node, a fridge is a node.

[Bearclaw]

Sorry, I edited before you answered (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Fortinbras]

One can Spoof commands to his commlink if they have your Access ID, something they can get with a Detect Wireless Signal check.
The downside here is that you can't spoof your Access ID because, if you do, the other commlinks won't be able to do anything. They do all their stuff through your commlink and, if they no longer recognize your commlink(because it's running a different Access ID) they aren't receiving or giving any commands to anything they recognize.
The other drawback is that your subscription limit is severely clogged up with all the team's commlinks.
It also means that if someone gets into your commlink, they have access to everybody on the team and don't have to hack one person at a time.

As with anything, when you increase security, you decrees access. Same goes for physical and Astral security.

[Makki]

I was under the impression that you couldn't spoof commands to commlinks. It doesn't have a pilot rating. Is it considered a peripheral device?

everything's a node. and Unwired p55 says the slave is a node and can be spoofed. and there isn't even the modifier I believed there was.
So if B is slaved to A, I can spoof A's ID. If B is a commlink I can tell it to shut down/restart/play AR-Porn/etc

[Laughing One]

Unwired, pg55 under "Slaving".

...Hackers have three options when faced with a slaved node.
First, they can hack in directly to the slave with an additional
threshold modifier of +2, though this requires a physical (wired)
connection to the device. Second, they can hack the master node
(thus gaining access to the slaved node—and any other slaves—
as well), though this node is usually more secure. Third, they can
spoof the access ID of the master node and then spoof commands
to the slave.

And one more thing: DNI is a device-to-brain interface. The samurai dont need to connect his cyber to any commlink.

[Ghost_in_the_Sys...]

Hackers have three options when faced with a slaved node.
First, they can hack in directly to the slave with an additional
threshold modifier of +2, though this requires a physical (wired)
connection to the device. Second, they can hack the master node
(thus gaining access to the slaved node—and any other slaves—
as well), though this node is usually more secure. Third, they can
spoof the access ID of the master node and then spoof commands
to the slave.

[Bearclaw]

My impression is, to spoof a command, you have to be sending the command to something that accepts commands. The pilot in a drone, or the equivalent in a coffee maker or or taxi. If there isn't a pilot type program running, you can't tell it what to do, so you can't send it a spoofed command.

Example: You can't spoof a command to a gun. There's nothing there to accept the command. You can spoof a command to a smartlink, it's got just enough of a brain to accept commands like, full-auto or eject clip.

I don't believe a commlink has anything built in to accept and act on commands, but I'd be happy if some one showed me where I'm wrong.

[Ghost_in_the_Sys...]

My impression is, to spoof a command, you have to be sending the command to something that accepts commands. The pilot in a drone, or the equivalent in a coffee maker or or taxi. If there isn't a pilot type program running, you can't tell it what to do, so you can't send it a spoofed command.

Example: You can't spoof a command to a gun. There's nothing there to accept the command. You can spoof a command to a smartlink, it's got just enough of a brain to accept commands like, full-auto or eject clip.

I don't believe a commlink has anything built in to accept and act on commands, but I'd be happy if some one showed me where I'm wrong.

Everything in a commlink is built to accept and act on commands. Shut down, load attack program, give admin privilage to access ID 4372469, change master to ID 4372469, etc.

[Bearclaw]

From pg. 236 BBB

The target of a spoof attempt must either have a Pilot rating or be
a peripheral device. Most often you will spoof a drone or an agent, but
you may also use spoof to do things like unlock doors, get free cab rides,
and make the McHugh’s autocooker prepare your soyburger exactly
the way you like it.

[Fortinbras]

You are turning the commlink to a peripheral device by making it slaved.

[Ghost_in_the_Sys...]

Well, 'Peripheral device' isn't defined anywhere in the book, other than mentioning a couple of particular examples. I take 'peripheral device' to mean 'anything capable of accepting and acting on electronic commands', which would include commlinks along with everything on your list. I think the reason that it mentions pilot/agent in particular is that they aren't devices, they're computer constructs, and so wouldn't be affected by spoof if it only said devices.

However, regardless of trying to define peripheral device, as myself and three other people have quoted, the rules say very directly that spoof is an acceptable means of defeating slaving. This could mean that a commlink is a peripheral device (Which I believe to be the case) or it could mean that a slaved commlink is a particular exception of some kind.

FYI I define peripheral device as any device that is connected (or could be connected) to another device in some way.

[Bearclaw]

So....having cyberware is stupid?
If any jackass with a rating 3 commlink and an off the rack agent can completely shut you down, what's the point?

[Fortinbras]

You need to check out Unwired. It gives a great many detail on things like this.
Much of your cyberware can be made without wireless.
Spoofing also means that you are only giving one command per action, as opposed to hacking, in which case you have complete access to the device.
You also have to be within mutual signal range of the device you are spoofing. Most cyberware, when it is wireless, has a Signal range of 0.

That being said, having cyberware makes you vulnerable to hackers. In this way hackers are not toothless in combat.

[Ghost_in_the_Sys...]

Mutual signal range includes any and all devices that you can bounce the connection off of, it doesn't have to be a direct mutual signal range.

It isn't bad to have cyberware though, all you have to do is turn off the wireless when you don't actively need its wireless to be on (such as running a diagnoses every so often).

Also, while you can only spoof one command at a time, your first command can be 'accept me as the new master' and then you have full admin access. So slaving a device can be potentially dangerous.

Edit: Well, what I said about mutual signal range isn't quite right, but there are -very- few applications in which routing can't accomplish the same thing as mutual signal range, and spoofing access to someone's cyberware isn't one of those exceptions.

[James McMurray]

Well, 'Peripheral device' isn't defined anywhere in the book, other than mentioning a couple of particular examples.

It's actually defined pretty clearly. A commlink is most definitely not a peripheral device.

A peripheral device is a Matrix-capable appliance or piece of equipment that is wireless (or in some cases wired) but is not intended to be used for full-blown Matrix interfacing and processing.

A commlink is a device intended for matrix interfacing and processing, ergo it ain't one.

[KarmaInferno]

Basically the only really effective way to not be hacked is not have data connections to outside your PAN.



-k

[Fortinbras]

Also, while you can only spoof one command at a time, your first command can be 'accept me as the new master' and then you have full admin access. So slaving a device can be potentially dangerous

Only if the Access ID you are spoofing has admin privileges. Even then "Accept me as the new master" is a bit of a misnomer.
The first thing you would need to do is delete the enslavement. Then you would need to hack in and create a legit account for yourself, probably an admin account. Once you have a legit admin account you can slave the device to yourself.
This cannot be done in one command.

You can't just give the command "Be enslaved to X Access ID" because X Access ID doesn't have an account.

[Fortinbras]

It's actually defined pretty clearly. A commlink is most definitely not a peripheral device.
A commlink is a device intended for matrix interfacing and processing, ergo it ain't one.

Unwired more clearly defines what you can and cannot Spoof that overrides the BBB.

As described under Spoof Command, p. 224, SR4, a
hacker can use Spoof software to send commands to a target
that look like they were sent by someone with control
or access privileges. This trick may be used to
falsify commands to drones, agents, sprites
(technomancers only), electronic devices,
and slaved nodes.

[James McMurray]

Cool. I was responding specifically to the claim that peripheral devices aren't defined (hence my only quoting that portion).

[Fortinbras]

Yeah, Peripheral Nodes are clearly defined on p. 48 of Unwired.