[X] My Assistant

[Yerameyahu]

Except for the multiple attacks/base DV issue. I suggested what I think you've said: Base DV once, + every extra bullet as normal. Now, what if they're not identical guns? Different range, DV, AP, etc.? Personally, I'd just refuse to allow it (say that the ballistics are too different or something).

[Ghost_in_the_Sys...]

Except for the multiple attacks/base DV issue. I suggested what I think you've said: Base DV once, + every extra bullet as normal. Now, what if they're not identical guns? Different range, DV, AP, etc.? Personally, I'd just refuse to allow it (say that the ballistics are too different or something).

Indeed, then it falls under "Why can't I put different kinds of ammo into my clip?" The answer being "Because you can't."

[sabs]

except you totally can put different kinds of ammo in your clip.

That's how ammo skipping systems WORK.

[Ghost_in_the_Sys...]

You're right. I suppose I should have specified that you can load different kinds of ammo into your clip, but if a burst would cause you to switch ammo types, you cannot fire that burst.

[Mäx]

You're right. I suppose I should have specified that you can load different kinds of ammo into your clip, but if a burst would cause you to switch ammo types, you cannot fire that burst.

But, burst fire of capsule round each containing different toxin is allowed and the compounts all do damage seperatly (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

Only in the sense that it's not specifically disallowed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) That whole area is a mess begging for the GM to punch you. I'd call any difference between bullets (except tracers) a change in ammo, and not allowed mid-burst.

[Mäx]

Only in the sense that it's not specifically disallowed.

Actually in a sense that how it tells you to do it in page 58 of Ghost Cartels.

[sabs]

the only thing multiple bullets do is increase the DV/lower the defense by 1 per bullet and the recoil by 1 per bullet.

[hobgoblin]

i guess if the GM wants to be cruel, he could go with taking the worst damage and AP and combo that...

[Ghost_in_the_Sys...]

i guess if the GM wants to be cruel, he could go with taking the worst damage and AP and combo that...

That's what I'd do if I was the GM and someone absolutely insisted on being able to fire different kinds of ammo in a single burst.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

That's what I'd do if I was the GM and someone absolutely insisted on being able to fire different kinds of ammo in a single burst.

Indeed... all other ammunition benefits would be wasted... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[capt.pantsless]

I think the easiest thing to do would just make one attack, add +2 dice to hit, for firing 2 LMGs and target gets -2 to dodge.

It depends on how close the guns where mounted. Assuming they were side-by-side and always aimed in the same direction, if the guns are, say, 2 inches apart, then resolve it like a narrow burst. If they're a foot apart, it's a wide-burst. If they're on opposite sides of the car, it's suppressive fire. Or something like that.

You'll want to work this out IN DETAIL between the GM and player.

[Yerameyahu]

Psh, Ghost Cartels doesn't count. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Capsule rounds barely make sense as it is, but I'd compensate by charging for a full dose of the chemical per individual capsule.

[Faraday]

Psh, Ghost Cartels doesn't count. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Capsule rounds barely make sense as it is, but I'd compensate by charging for a full dose of the chemical per individual capsule.

Pepper punch is great in this case. 5 nuyen a pop is still not terribly expensive.

[Badmoodguy88]

Strange because there is the real world example of this, fighter aircraft.

If each gun were controlled by a different person they would count as different attacks right? If they were controlled by the same human I guess they would have the same rules for a human firing two weapon in the flesh.

I would think a drone could do better though. No in built biological reason for not being able to look in two different directions and fire at each with full concentration if the computer running the guns is good enough.

Maybe you could fire one gun with a targeting laser attached and the drone would just be set to just fire at where the laser is pointed. Rule though... a lack of rules is a problem.

[Ghost_in_the_Sys...]

There may be no biological reason a pilot program couldn't fire two guns at the same time, but it does have another same problem that a human has: Multitasking. Just like we have to split our attention to aim two weapons at the same time, the pilot would have to split its processing power and targeting programs between the two guns, which would split its dice pool just like it splits a metahuman's. So yeah, no off hand penalty, but it still has to split its DP.

As for separate people controlling the guns, yes, that's how it would work.

And yes, real world aircraft used (still use?) this sort of setup, but they are generally firing at targets notably larger than the distance between the guns even against other aircraft because the guns are generally placed near the center of the plane.

As for the targeting laser, with the sophistication of targeting and pilot software, I don't see that being particularly easier than just trying to hit targets on its own.

[Badmoodguy88]

That is certainly the justification, I guess I just don't buy it. A cyber deck or drone is able to run a number of high rating programs simultaneously without penalty. As far as game mechanics and game balance I can see it being vetoed I just don't think it makes sense in fluff.

I guess a compromise might be to slave the weapon arm to a comlink that you need to buy and get software for, and it counts as a separate drone for the purpose of issuing it commands and taking over direct control of the weapon.

Another way to look at it is in some ways you could see this is like making a new weapon instead of new rules. Like how firing both chambers of a double barreled shot gun counts as a a short burst. The only problem is that the weapon mount will need to lift both guns.

I am thinking if it is separate dice-pools, or separate rolls then the damage is rolled normally for two different guns. But if it is one roll then it would be like a burst fire weapon with more bullets.

[Yerameyahu]

A drone can't run multiple Pilots, though. That's really the only relevant part. It is a tricky spot that the GM has to deal with, in the end.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Psh, Ghost Cartels doesn't count. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Capsule rounds barely make sense as it is, but I'd compensate by charging for a full dose of the chemical per individual capsule.

You don't do that already? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

Of course, but it doesn't make sense to. How does a capsule contain the same amount as a gas/splash grenade? Ugh.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Of course, but it doesn't make sense to. How does a capsule contain the same amount as a gas/splash grenade? Ugh.

Yeah, but that is totally irrelevant to the game system. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
A Dose is a Dose. Does it really matter?

Fluffwise, obviously, the concentrations are greater for larger munitions that affect areas. Cost is obviously the same. After all, creating large quantities of most chemicals in a lab is quite cheap. Unless, of course, you want the fine granularity of tracking hundred of chemicals based upon dosage and weight tables. I know that I do not... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Dakka Dakka]

A drone can't run multiple Pilots, though. That's really the only relevant part. It is a tricky spot that the GM has to deal with, in the end.

Wait till someone duct-tapes x smart firing platforms to a vehicle.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Wait till someone duct-tapes x smart firing platforms to a vehicle.

Indeed... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

Yep, that's been the traditional solution. It's perfectly valid and playable, as far as I'm concerned. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[ZeroPoint]

On the subject of mounting, I would think the best way to do it would be to not have them exactly parallel, and actually "zeroed" at a particular distance (like say 100 meters) which should give you a decent grouping on anything at standard engagement ranges.

As for firing two weapons at the same time...we have an elephant rifle and a few other "double barrel" weapons that are not that different from 2 guns strapped together...and how do they work that? +1 DV...

So I would agree, Base of one of weapons +1 per additional bullet from each gun. so 2 LMGs short bursted would do 6DV base +5DV burst.

Though Tymeaus' suggesting about using minigun rules would be simpler...but not quite as crunchy. I like crunchy.

And for different weapons, as long as they use the same ranges you should be ok. If the weapons are too wildy different on the range tables their trajectories will be much too different and I'd start applying large DP penalties beyond short range. Otherwise I would just Average the base DVs/AP (after factoring in ammo)