Improving Cyberware, Because ware shouldn't become obsolete Options

[HunterHerne]

It's a damn good pick pocket who can scoop my implanted comlink out of my head without me noticing.

Exactly.

[Dakka Dakka]

Also, as pointed out in another thread a while back, the skinlinked version lacks DNI and thus can't eject your clip as a free action.

While this may be RAI it definitely isn't RAW. You do not need a DNI for the Eject clip action to become a Free one. All you need is a smart gun.

[suoq]

It's a damn good pick pocket who can scoop my implanted comlink out of my head without me noticing.

So, your character now has an internal commlink because the old one got pickpocketed one time too many? Pickpocketing has become enough of a threat that implanted commlinks are now cost effective?

Are you also now using cybereyes instead of skinlinked goggles?

[Ghost_in_the_Sys...]

So, your character now has an internal commlink because the old one got pickpocketed one time too many? Pickpocketing has become enough of a threat that implanted commlinks are now cost effective?

Are you also now using cybereyes instead of skinlinked goggles?

Did you read what he was replying to? You said that 'any case in which you would lose a non-implanted device, you would also lose the implanted device'. He was providing a contradiction to that statement, not saying that people have internal commlinks because they are afraid of pickpockets (Though it is just one more advantage).

[LurkerOutThere]

While this may be RAI it definitely isn't RAW. You do not need a DNI for the Eject clip action to become a Free one. All you need is a smart gun.

Actually it is raw per unwired.

[KCKitsune]

The problem with magic may be partially that we are wired to think of it as powerful and/or to not want to decrease the power of something. We'd rather raise something else up to match it than bring it down.

I would so go for a system where Magic is limited in the way that I suggested. It turns getting cyber for a magic/technomancer character from a no-brainer to a "OMG, do I REALLY want that <insert 'ware system> THAT badly? I also think that it fits a burnout mage better if his magic truly limited if he gets 'ware.

[Badmoodguy88]

So it seems there are some good arguments for cyber characters not getting something like radar, a cyber deck, or a datajack implanted. Well so what? That just leaves more room for a cyber character to implant more things they do need. I guess if you have a cyber limb you may run out of useful things to implant in it with capacity, but maybe that should be combated by adding new things you can implant.

That makes me think. Maybe all cyberlimbs could get a small bonus (maybe by percent) to how much can be implanted in them. It is a small enough advantage that is might not imbalance but instead balance things.

Anyway I think we will be getting more gene tech in the next edition. Ultimately this is pros of being a mundane with cyber vs. being a mage passably also with cyber. That and a mundane character not having enough things to spend karma on.

[Stahlseele]

Huh?
Cyberlimbs have capacity limits, that is the limit for how much you can put into them . .
Doesn't mean you can't get more into one Limb than the limb has capacity, but then the implant needs to use Essence.
So this only works for stuff that have both capacity and essence cost listed. So no attribute Enhancements for Essence.

[Ghost_in_the_Sys...]

What exactly is the pro of being a mundane with cyber vs a mage with cyber? That there is more genetech coming out in some future edition? That you can ignore implanting some things because they have a non-implant exact equivalent? The first doesn't benefit mundane more than awakened because awakened can use genetech, and the second benefits awakened because that means they don't have to waste essence on things like a datajack.

[Irion]

As a matter of fact, mages pay extra for genetech so this is really not such a good choice for them.

As a matter of fact, I think a datajack is one of those things you should take if it fits the character. Some academic background. Get a datajack.

The idea of KCKitsune would really limit the usefullness of ware for the awakend. And lets be honest.
The non augmented mage or adept is not really the problem. Is he?

[Stahlseele]

The unaugmented Mage lobbing Mana-Balls left and right at Force 10 is a Problem.
The unaugmented Adept is so bad that he's basically extinct.

[Udoshi]

Datajack - The venerable datajack gets reworked withs ome of the same tech that allows trodes to work better taking advantage of it's direct link to a users brain to provide the full DNI 2.0 experience: Datajacks now allow users to take and additional free action and a complex or two simples in regards to the matrix or other online devices.
Problems with implantation: We'd need to codify what can be done with these actions, if instructing your drone to fire is ok why wouldn't instrucitng your cyberarm to fire? (i'm actually pretty comfortable with this, but others might not be). Also some way for technomancers to do the same would have to be implented through echos or complex forms or something.

Possibly the most easy to implement, and also balls to the walls crazy with its implications, is to take Unwired's note about Interface types (manual vs DNI) at face value, and then go a step further and assume that -any- use of a DNI device is a free action, instead of the listed action types in the main book.

Since free actions can explicitly be delayed till later in the pass, this change single handedly changes decking into an incredibly convoluted game of wits where everyone is trying to out-maneuver everyone else, and pure virtual speed - initiative - becomes very, very important, and very very deadly. (Important note: This is completely ridiculous balls-to-the-walls taking off the power limiters of the matrix. Hackers can now take 3 actions per pass, and the only other counter is a faster hacker who can step in and cockblock them.)

In order to emphasize the difference between Trodes and Jacks: Trodes or other external DNI let you take ONE action per pass like this. Jacks let you take ALL of them.
Optional distinction: You need internal cyber DNI to achieve hotsim - with your skull in the way, the best you can get is cold.
To even things up, Manual Control is alwas a simple action in the same way that dni is always free, leaving the Combat Texters feeling useful.
Pre-emptive rigger nerf: While using DNI to rig, the cold limitations of plastic and steel slow you down. When executing a command that has a physical result, such as driving, executing a maneuver, or shooting a gun, you may only execute that command once per pass. (the advantage a rigger now has is that they can make a driving test, make a sensor test, and shoot someone, but can't shoot someone 3 times in one pass).

Edit: Bringing Sanity Back to the matrix: You can only take the same action once each pass, unless its already a free action(in which case you an do it as often as you have actions). This prevents 3 hack on the fly checks, or 3 attacks, but expands your options(you can attack and crash, or hack and spoof a trace.) After realizing what I'd written and suggested, this rule is kind of necessary.

[Irion]

@Stahlseele

The unaugmented Mage lobbing Mana-Balls left and right at Force 10 is a Problem.

The good old manaball. I would check with an edge test if the mage sees the guys at the moment the ball hits.
Because if you shoot and take cover behind a crate, you are not visible. So no LOS so no DAMAGE!
Thats the BONUS for direct spells. If you enforce that, manaballs tend to be less scary.

[HunterHerne]

The good old manaball. I would check with an edge test if the mage sees the guys at the moment the ball hits.
Because if you shoot and take cover behind a crate, you are not visible. So no LOS so no DAMAGE!
Thats the BONUS for direct spells. If you enforce that, manaballs tend to be less scary.

That is a fair point. Might be tough getting GM's to enforce it, although I know I'll certainly try.

[Dakka Dakka]

The unaugmented Mage lobbing Mana-Balls left and right at Force 10 is a Problem.

Which unaugmented mage can do that? Last time I checked a Force 10 Manaball is 7 drain. Assuming 6 in both drain attributes the mage will drop after the fourth spell.

@Irion: While you have to have LOS to affect people with the spell, you cannot duck into cover before the spell hits. Targeting and hitting the target take place at the same time. Either you are still in cover so you can't target the spell or you are not yet in cover and the spell goes off before you are back in cover.

[HunterHerne]

Yeah. This is true. Direct spells don't actually travel the distance, they spontaneously affect from the mana surrounding the target(s). But, it still needs LOS. And if the target moves behind a crate from a delayed turn, then the Mage may be SOL

[Irion]

@Dakka Dakka
So, my point is still valid.
Is everybody in LOS the moment the spell is cast or not?

The LOS thing is the biggest disadvantage of direct spells. I think it should matter.

[Ghost_in_the_Sys...]

Yeah. This is true. Direct spells don't actually travel the distance, they spontaneously affect from the mana surrounding the target(s). But, it still needs LOS. And if the target moves behind a crate from a delayed turn, then the Mage may be SOL

Only if she can move at the speed of light or moves before the mage actually sees her.

[Badmoodguy88]

Ok here is the advantage to being mundane, you don't need to dump lots of points magical... That and why not go for a lot of cyber, gene tech, and bioware.

Having more points freed up at that start might let you buy some other things that cost a lot of points and are only available at character creation. Species, surge, other qualities. Adding more qualities would help out mundanes, but also awakened, but I argue it would help out mundanes more because they have more build points free to buy up the useful qualities. I argue that the same is true for adding more bioware, genetech, and cyberware except instead of build points it is essence.

Anyway on an unrelated note, I have been thinking that to make cyberware a better choice there needs to be some way for later game characters to sink some karma into their cyberware. Maybe after a runner has had their gear for a while and has become very used to it he is able to eek out a little more performance from his enhancements. These would be like 5 and 10 point qualities; not something everyone has, just the rare few who have 10 to 20 karma to spend on small bonuses. The mechanics of are more tricky because so many augmentations give very small bonuses of one or two dice and adding just one more dice seems like a large improvement. But you could still write qualities for specific gear.

[Stahlseele]

Which unaugmented mage can do that? Last time I checked a Force 10 Manaball is 7 drain. Assuming 6 in both drain attributes the mage will drop after the fourth spell.

And how many of those are you EVER gonna need?
One left, one right, one dead center, more is usually not needed . .
If you DO need more than three force 10 spells, then you are in much deeper shit anyway and don't need to care about dropping after the fourth anymore . .

[Mäx]

The unaugmented Mage lobbing Mana-Balls left and right at Force 10 is a Problem.

Which unaugmented mage can do that? Last time I checked a Force 10 Manaball is 7 drain. Assuming 6 in both drain attributes the mage will drop after the fourth spell.

One with centering, centering foci and a blood fetish for Manaball (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Irion]

@Badmoodguy88
I guess the most obvious example is an adept.
If you stick with the rules:
You start with Karmagen and you take the adept quality, one point of ware and increase your magic from one to two. (As a matter of fact you could take the adept quality after taking the ware and so get around the problem of paying for the lost point.

So depending on how you role you get one point of ware for 10 Karma or X point of ware for 0 Karma.
In play you keep increasing and dropping your magic attribute till you have the essence loss you want.
This coust 10 Karma per point. I guess 4 points are more than enough. (40 Karma)
Now you start buying up magic.
2: 10 Karma.
3: 15+13(*0.6)Karma
4: 20+16*(0.6) Karma.
5: 25+19*(0.6) Karma.
6: 30+21*(0.6)Karma
So 148 to 220 Karma for 4 points of ware, 6 points of magic and 5 points of initiation.
(Quite a deal if you consider, that with improved ability (4 to 6) you may save yourself around 22KArma for 0.5 Powerpoints. Do this with 3 Powerpoints and you got yourself 22*6=132 Karma saved. )
And you do not need to go this high. Drop the last 2 Points and the Karma cost go down to 95 Points!

[Mäx]

You start with Karmagen and you take the adept quality, one point of ware and increase your magic from one to two. (As a matter of fact you could take the adept quality after taking the ware and so get around the problem of paying for the lost point.

Except you can't do neither of these think in chargen, the order in witch you do thinks in chargen doesn't matter one bit, you always lose 1 point of magic for every point of missing essence.

Also awesome job "breaking" the system with your character thats only viable after 100+ karma (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Irion]

Also awesome job "breaking" the system with your character thats only viable after 100+ karma

You might take two points of essence loss in Chargen for additional 5 Karma. (After your ruling)

Yes, he won't be at start a bit behind the sam who dumped everything in ware. So what?
This is true for any character. (Well, may be not mages but thats a different story)

Three points of ware and one point of magic is easy to get. Costs around 60 Karma, 10 out of chargen.

(Not to mention, that cybering up to the point of no return is not helpfull for every concept)

Except you can't do neither of these think in chargen, the order in witch you do thinks in chargen doesn't matter one bit, you always lose 1 point of magic for every point of missing essence.

After you took the quality. Nothing is preventing you from doing it the other way around. RAW. (Even enforced with what is written to latend awakening)
Thats why the rules for essence loss are silly.

[Mäx]

After you took the quality. Nothing is preventing you from doing it the other way around.

The order in witch you do thinks in chargen doesn't matter at all.