Improving Cyberware, Because ware shouldn't become obsolete Options

[Ghost_in_the_Sys...]

And everyone in the world gets a datajack and is immune to magic. That's a bit too much I think.

[Halflife]

You could scale the object resistance threshold based on Essence spent but that just seems to make low magic characters even less viable without really impacting mages who can shrug off all but the highest thresholds already.

[Ghost_in_the_Sys...]

I don't know how that makes low magic mages less viable than giving everyone with a datajack 5 free hits on magic resistance tests.

Perhaps a nice middle ground is that for each point of essence lost, all spells targeted at the person are reduced by a force of 1, which is similar to how a mage would lose a point of magic for losing a point of essence. This would make low magic mages viable through overcasting.

[HunterHerne]

I don't know how that makes low magic mages less viable than giving everyone with a datajack 5 free hits on magic resistance tests.

Perhaps a nice middle ground is that for each point of essence lost, all spells targeted at the person are reduced by a force of 1, which is similar to how a mage would lose a point of magic for losing a point of essence. This would make low magic mages viable through overcasting.

Perhaps, but the healing spell mechanic of reducing dice pool would work a lot better, without nerfing them too badly.

That said, I think GM's should just be more aware of Background count and the fact that killing a chicken can temporarily increase it (according to fluff)

[Ghost_in_the_Sys...]

I don't know where you get that killing a chicken is remotely close to enough to create any amount of background count. An example of a rating 1 background count is the scene of a violent crime. I don't think killing a chicken quite counts, even if it is technically violent and might be a crime.

Edit: That said, alot of what shadowrunners do could be creating BCs of 1 all over the place.

[HunterHerne]

Well, it's not a permanent background count. I just remember one of the pre-chapter stories being about a mage muddying the astral space by killing a chicken at the scene, to hide the astral signatures for a little while.

Edit: But, I could be wrong. I can't seem to ever find it again, no matter how hard I look.

[Ghost_in_the_Sys...]

Not in any of my books. I could perhaps see performing some kind of ritual that involved sacrificing a chicken being able to create a slight BC for a bit, but I'd think that it would carry the signature of the person performing the ritual as well as not be strong enough to hide a signature.

Now, if you set off a bomb in a crowded building, that would likely hide your signature for a while.

[LurkerOutThere]

I find it amusing that a thread about how to improve ware becomes a thread about balancing magic.

[Ghost_in_the_Sys...]

Cyberware giving a defense against magic would be an improvement, no?

[LurkerOutThere]

Maybe, i'm not sure. I don't think cyber's judge fail should be based strictly on magic. I specificly picked out the two items in the OP becuase they are items that have gear equivalents that does the same job exactly as better. That strikes me as wrong especially in the case of trodes vs datajack. Logically a datajack should be better, the game just hasn't seen fit to explore how.

[Yerameyahu]

That's the story of SR4. Everything that was cyber-only got a gear equivalent. Ultrasound, radar, smartlink, etc.

[LurkerOutThere]

Well in the case of radar and ultrasound it makes sense to me there should be a gear equivalent but datajack is all about getting the best hardware to wetware connection you can.

[Ghost_in_the_Sys...]

Hmm, I see what you mean. Kind of like how smart goggles used to be less effective than an implanted smartlink system.

Well, to get back on that track, I'm not so sure it needs it. It is one of those things that exists largely for flavor, like the silky skin bioware. It has no mechanical advantage, but you might take it to show just how concerned your character is with their appearance, and it is something that NPCs get.

In the case of datajack for example, you might get it because it is that tiny bit better (tiny enough to not give a DP bonus) than a trode net, along with the fact that it is impossible to misplace.

That said, if you really want to give cyber an advantage I suggest dropping the power of the gear as opposed to raising the power of the ware. Why? Well, quite simply because if you increase the power of ware, you decrease the power of things that don't have access to ware like IC, agents, AI, and sprites. For datajack vs trodes for example, you could give a -1 penalty to all matrix actions while using trodes to represent them not quite relaying things at 100%. You're more or less using inferior equipment.

[Badmoodguy88]

I do think there should be more little gadgets and ware that give unique bonuses. But you have to be careful with bloat and something being too good. Just more options and synergies to work with so that something can be cobbled together for a character. This would help out magic character but it would I think help cyber characters more, because there is only so much cyber a mage can scoop up and cyber characters can scoop up more of it.

The problem with suggesting this is that it needs a lot of creativity to come up with a lot of things that you might sometimes want but not always want. Not two weak, not two strong, just right. It is like saying all you need to do to solve this problem is to solve this problem.

The other thing is that lower than 6 essence and higher than 6 essence might give some advantage and disadvantage to remain hidden from astral. I would go with, every two points of essence bellow 6 subtracts a dice from the searcher's dice pool, and ever 2 points above 6 essence (and maybe magic) adds a dice to the searcher's dice pool. Negative essence instead adds dice to be observed in the same way essence over 6 adds to the dice pool of observers. This is because a black astral taint is more easy to see than simply a dim aura. It is a small bonus or penalty but it is small tweaks here in there that you need to make or else you overshoot your goal.

It also occurs to me that quickened spells, and anchored spells may have been something that could have gone some way to give mundanes some of what magic has. But there are all kinds of obstacles from them being useful and from them being something you can just pay have done. The main limitations as we probably all know are stealth, being vulnerable to targeting from astral, high karma cost for something that can be destroyed or diminished fairly easily. Also because if a quickened spell can be tracked back to the caster to bite them in the ass. You can not cast it on yourself because you are mundane. A party member can not do it because it costs lots of karma. A NPC will not do it because unlike foci it can be tracked back to its maker and it also costs lots of karma cost. It was just a thought. I think they successfully made quickened spells interesting but not overpowered so it is hard to mess with that equation, but here is me trying anyway.

Maybe a mundane or anyone else could step in to pay for the karma for a quickened spell being cast on themselves, and then the spell is only linked to the person who stepped in, to pay karma. It could need to be a tattoo magic maybe, or not. The ability to allow someone else to pay for a quickened spell would probably be a new metamagic. New toys for the kid with the most toys but it could help magic spread the wealth some.

Something similar could be done for other items. There are a rare few items in shadow run that are anything like any of the magic items from something like D&D but they do exist in the shadow run universe. Getting magic active through barriers would still be hard but that would just mean sometimes you have to leave your vorpal blade at home.

I picture a sort of permanency spell that counts as double karma when being quickened (can still pay up to twice karma force, and it will then count as double) but then the spell does nothing other than preventing any quickened spells cast before it from being dispelled before it is fully dispelled. It would also stop more spells from being quickened on a person or an object until the permanency spell is dispelled. The double karma part may be too good. Because then you could load up with a lot of low level but useful quickened spells and then toss a really high force and high karma permanency spell on top like some sort of capstone, and then all your little spells are safe and the average enemy would just slag you with manabolts than tangle with removing a high force quickened spell in the middle of combat.

With that use in mind, it being something that effectively allows you to spend less karma on a lot of little quickened spells, permanency might cost double karma, or double karma points of karma spent over force.

[Irion]

Cyberware giving a defense against magic would be an improvement, no?

Lets take a look at it.

Depends on how much spellresistance you get per point of essence loss and how it interacts with counterspelling.
Plane bonus dice for each point of lost essence would be quite nice. (But you should really watch the line of sight for counterspelling!)

[suoq]

I specifically picked out the two items in the OP becuase they are items that have gear equivalents that does the same job exactly as better. That strikes me as wrong especially in the case of trodes vs datajack. Logically a datajack should be better, the game just hasn't seen fit to explore how.

The issue with trodes/nanopaste/skinlink is the same as the issue with magic. It was adding something great without taking anything away.
There is no real reason trodes/nanopaste/skinlink should work with VR. You could limit it to AR only. Personally, I'd limit it to command only, AR with cybereyes, and VR with a datajack. If you want AR and VR, get the eyes and the jack. I'd also allow AR with goggles and wireless, but VR needs that jack.
There is no reason MULTIPLE trodes/nanopaste/skinlinks should work at the same time. You could classify trodes and and nanopaste as skinlink devices as well and have only one work at a time. I can think of a half dozen reasons why they should interfere with each other and why two people using skinlink devices should not touch other. It also seems to make sense that if you're using a skinlink device and I touch you, I have the same link to that device that you have.

[Stahlseele]

Well, one could go into encryption.
On second thought, let's not go to encryption. It's a silly place.

[Ghost_in_the_Sys...]

I wasn't aware that you could wear multiple trodes at the same time, and am even less aware of any reason you might want to do that.

As for skinlink devices, there is no reason two people with skinlinked devices shouldn't touch each other any more than there is any reason that two people with wireless devices shouldn't come within signal range of each other. Yes, if you have skinlinked enabled devices and touch someone that also has skinlinked devices, you could access those devices, but with no more ease than you could access them if they were wireless devices.

[HunterHerne]

I wasn't aware that you could wear multiple trodes at the same time, and am even less aware of any reason you might want to do that.

As for skinlink devices, there is no reason two people with skinlinked devices shouldn't touch each other any more than there is any reason that two people with wireless devices shouldn't come within signal range of each other. Yes, if you have skinlinked enabled devices and touch someone that also has skinlinked devices, you could access those devices, but with no more ease than you could access them if they were wireless devices.

Except that if you are wearing skin-linked devices you might have skimped out on the rest of your security suite. But that`d be your fault anyway.

As far as I can tell, in the '70's people tend to go out of their way to avoid physical contact with anyone, so even bumping into someone on the street might be a little odd. Let along prolonged contact in order to skinlink-hack.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

As far as I can tell, in the '70's people tend to go out of their way to avoid physical contact with anyone, so even bumping into someone on the street might be a little odd. Let along prolonged contact in order to skinlink-hack.

I'm Curious... Where did you infer this from? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Ghost_in_the_Sys...]

I haven't really seen anything that says they avoid physical contact any more than in modern times. That said, even in modern times about the only time touching someone you don't know well happens is shaking their hand.

[suoq]

As for skinlink devices, there is no reason two people with skinlinked devices shouldn't touch each other

A skinlink device, to the best of my understanding, is sending high voltage, incredibly low amperage current through my body, much like a violet wand does. It needs to have enough amperage so that the signal very reliably gets through but NOT enough amperage to start causing pain or damage. And it's easy to say OUCH when you suddenly brush against metal while holding a violet wand.

I don't want to think about holding two violet wands or touching someone else who is also holding a violet wand.

By the way, for an example of the power levels we're talking about, I normally use a violet wand on Halloween. I'll stand outside with a glowing florescent bulb (the long tubes) in my hand. If someone else grabs the tube the section between us glows brightly. If I let go, it turns off. But if I touch you, it's like a carpet shock that doesn't go away.

All that being said. There doesn't have to be a reason. The matrix doesn't work like any protocol we know. The NAN doesn't make any sense. None of the rules or fluff hold up to scrutiny. One simply says "This is the way it is" and that's that.

[Stahlseele]

What the hell is a voilet wand?

[HunterHerne]

I'm Curious... Where did you infer this from? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Just an inference based partly on how society is going already, and the little fiction I've read. That, of course is general, and more likely in upper class society, but it's always been that way.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

A skinlink device, to the best of my understanding, is sending high voltage, incredibly low amperage current through my body, much like a violet wand does. It needs to have enough amperage so that the signal very reliably gets through but NOT enough amperage to start causing pain or damage. And it's easy to say OUCH when you suddenly brush against metal while holding a violet wand.

I don't want to think about holding two violet wands or touching someone else who is also holding a violet wand.

By the way, for an example of the power levels we're talking about, I normally use a violet wand on Halloween. I'll stand outside with a glowing florescent bulb (the long tubes) in my hand. If someone else grabs the tube the section between us glows brightly. If I let go, it turns off. But if I touch you, it's like a carpet shock that doesn't go away.

Not quite right... It is using the ambient electrical charge of the body to trasnmit data along it. Not quite the same as what you have above.

Skinlink: With skinlink, a device is adapted to send and receive data transmitted through the electrical feld on the surface of metahuman skin. Though limited to touch, skinlink communication has the advantage of being protected from signal interception or jamming.

Skinlink
A third option is to use skinlink, where a connection is established using the skin's electrical feld. For a skinlink connection to work, both devices must be touching the skin (or close to it-the electrical feld extends a bit beyond the skin, so clothing does not interfere), and both must be equipped with the skinlink accessory. Cybernetic implants may also be equipped with skinlink, even if they are not accessible on the body's exterior-in this case, a simple connection is established between the implant and the skin's surface.

As you can see, neither description is what you describe. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)