Improving Cyberware, Because ware shouldn't become obsolete Options

[suoq]

What the hell is a voilet wand?

A modified handheld Tesla Coil once used for quack medicine and now used for things that are against the Terms Of Service to talk about. Since I enjoy tesla coils, quack medicine, and things against the terms of service, it made sense for me to obtain one awhile back.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

A modified handheld Tesla Coil once used for quack medicine and now used for things that are against the Terms Of Service to talk about. Since I enjoy tesla coils, quack medicine, and things against the terms of service, it made sense for me to obtain one awhile back.

Heh... But a Skinlink is NOT a Violet Wand.

[suoq]

As you can see, neither description is what you describe.

This is a modern RPG with huge sections on firearms where the writers didn't know the difference between the difference between a clip and a magazine. Anything they write with electronics or metabolism I'm assuming they have an even lower level of knowledge.

And you're right TJ. A Skinlink is NOT a violet wand. A skinlink is a made up object that can do anything and behave in any way whatsoever, including being better than implanted cyberware in every way. Does making skinlink and trodes BETTER than 'ware make your game better?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

This is a modern RPG with huge sections on firearms where the writers didn't know the difference between the difference between a clip and a magazine. Anything they write with electronics or metabolism I'm assuming they have an even lower level of knowledge.

Which is still somewhat irrelevant. Whether they know their stuff or not, the rules tell you EXACTLY what they do, and there is no ambiguity there. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[suoq]

Which is still somewhat irrelevant. Whether they know their stuff or not, the rules tell you EXACTLY what they do, and there is no ambiguity there. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Congratulations. You win. Do you mind if the rest of us get on with discussing the problem with the rules and proposing changes to them?

[Ghost_in_the_Sys...]

I'm fairly sure that if two people using skinlink touching would cause some kind of problem, it would have been brought up. Just because you assume that skinlink works in some particular way that would have particular effects, doesn't mean that it does, especially when it is contradicted by what is in the books.

[Ghost_in_the_Sys...]

Congratulations. You win. Do you mind if the rest of us get on with discussing the problem with the rules and proposing changes to them?

I thought this was about ways to improve cyberware, not turn skinlink into joy buzzers.

[Yerameyahu]

If you want to limit VR to implants and wires, you can do that. It's a massive change (reversion, really), but many people just loved deckers. Removing skinlink (which roughly exists in 2010 tech already) merely forces people to be covered in fiber; no real reason for that hassle. Increase the skinlink price, if you like.

You'll also have to mess with AR rules a little too, because AR is about 90% as good as VR already (exceptions: rigging, slow-hack, datasearch…).

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Congratulations. You win. Do you mind if the rest of us get on with discussing the problem with the rules and proposing changes to them?

It is not about winning Suoq. I though that you knew that. As others have said, if there were the drawbacks present that you indicated, they would have been listed in the device use/description. They were not, so they did not exist in the first place. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[suoq]

I thought this was about ways to improve cyberware, not turn skinlink into joy buzzers.

The inherent problem with cyberware is that it, unlike everything else, comes with disadvantages and limitations.
Now we could remove the disadvantages (throw out essence cost and the first aid rules) and the end results would be predictable. I wouldn't mind an SR campaign like that honestly although I'd throw out the cap on starting (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) as well in such a campaign.
The other option is to start adding the disadvantages back into everything else. Add the glass back into glass cannons. Place limitations on devices. Cripple everything the way cyberware is crippled and has been crippled since day 1.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

The inherent problem with cyberware is that it, unlike everything else, comes with disadvantages.
Now we could remove the disadvantages (throw out essence cost and the first aid rules) and the end results would be predictable. I wouldn't mind an SR campaign like that honestly although I'd throw out the cap on starting (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) as well in such a campaign.
The other option is to start adding the disadvantages back into everything else. Add the glass back into glass cannons. Place limitations on devices. Cripple everything the way cyberware is crippled and has been crippled since day 1.

Interesting... I have never thought that Cyberware has ever been crippled. Oh well... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Oh, it can be more useful, to be sure, but that comes with Time, Money, and Grade Upgrades.

[Yerameyahu]

Skinlinks have their own functional profile. Devices must remain in contact or on your person (it works through clothes), and every device must be upgraded with the skinlink (nothing comes with it). Skinlink is cheap, so raise the price a little if it helps your table. It's a convenience issue, though, not a power issue. It's exactly the same as wiring everything together, except without the (boring, unrelated) effort.

[suoq]

You can have an implant that's expensive, hard to change, and costs essence or a skinlinked device that's easy to change, replace, or whatever, costs much less, and does exactly the same thing and you don't see an issue.

[Yerameyahu]

That's an implant vs. device issue, not a skinlink issue. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) At all.

It's just how things are. It makes sense, too: many implants are just implanted versions of 'normal' gear. It's only things that are unique to cyberware that should be… unique to cyberware (and/or bioware). And those items are, by definition, in no danger of being replaced with a device.

Can you give some examples? With all these generalities and obscure quack medicine gadgets, you're coming off like a jittery conspiracy theorist. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[suoq]

That's an implant vs. device issue, not a skinlink issue. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) At all.

Yes. It is. Because it's the skinlink that makes the device better than the implant. Without it the implant is better vs jamming, hacking, etc. The skinlink gives a device ALL the advantages of an implant at NONE of the costs.

[suoq]

With all these generalities and obscure quack medicine gadgets, you're coming off like a jittery conspiracy theorist. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

You're right. I'm wasting my time and energy trying to talk to people who have a vested interest in the system remaining broken. My bad.

[Ghost_in_the_Sys...]

Yes. It is. Because it's the skinlink that makes the device better than the implant. Without it the implant is better vs jamming, hacking, etc. The skinlink gives a device ALL the advantages of an implant at NONE of the costs.

But as Yerameyahu said, skinlink can be replaced with a wire, so no, skinlink really isn't what is at issue.

[suoq]

But as Yerameyahu said, skinlink can be replaced with a wire, so no, skinlink really isn't what is at issue.

If you want to handwave all the issues with wires away, from their being obvious to the time taken to plug them in to their ability to catch on things, be broken, etc. you are absolutely correct. Remove all disadvantages and yep, they're just as good as skinlink and better than ware. I agree with you completely. You've convinced me.

[Yerameyahu]

Don't pout and spout sarcasm, just give me a couple—hell, a *single*—examples, man! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Honestly, your argument is that wires might catch on things? Oy. I specifically said 'wires are a big, boring hassle', but that's not the same as being mechanically balanced.

[CanRay]

The advantage of cables is that they can be used as lanyards. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[suoq]

Don't pout and spout sarcasm, just give me a couple—hell, a *single*—examples, man! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Honestly, your argument is that wires might catch on things? Oy. I specifically said 'wires are a big, boring hassle', but that's not the same as being mechanically balanced.

No. You're right. Clealy datajacks and nanopaste are equal. Clealy cybereyes and skinlinked goggles are equal. Cleally an implanted gun and a skinlinked gun are equal. Clearly an impanted commlink and a skinlinked commlink are equal. I'm wrong. I take back everything I said. A character has no reason to choose the skinlinked items and nanopaste over the implanted items.

[Faelan]

A skinlinked device can always be taken away, an implant...well I have to get medieval on you with a damn big knife to take it away, of course you are probably dead at that point. Pretty big deal especially when dealing with more subtle cyber.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Don't pout and spout sarcasm, just give me a couple—hell, a *single*—examples, man! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Honestly, your argument is that wires might catch on things? Oy. I specifically said 'wires are a big, boring hassle', but that's not the same as being mechanically balanced.

Let me give it a try, Yerameyahu...

How about a Smartlink
Glasses with Skinlink, Smartlink, and an Image Link in the Glasses, Linked to a Skinlinked Smartpistol.
vs.
Internal Smartlink/Imagelinks in Natural or Cybereyes, Datajack with Skinlink (Maynot be necessary if you skinlink the CyberEyes), and a Skinlinked Smartpistol...

Cost variance is significant between the External Mods and the Internal Mods. External Mods can be lost, taken, while internal ones cannot. Seems balanced to me, but maybe Suoq disagrees?

[BnF95]

Skinlink transmits via the electrical energy of the body right?

I can see some issues with that off the top of my head.

1. Don't wear any armor with non-conductive modification (that would screw skinlink).
2. Don't get hit by lightning (I can see where this might be argued, but think of a power spike going into your electronics.)
3. Don't get hit with water (water really screws up electrical fields by diluting it or something like that) ... and if you are playing in Seattle where it rains quite a bit ... good luck on not getting wet.

[HunterHerne]

You want to find a disadvantage to skinlinks? Alright. The palming skill. Glitches/critical glitches. A pickpocket can still take the device off of you, unless you have it very tightly fastened. You can drop it (savvy GM's might even hold back the complete effects of a glitch or crit glitch until you look for the device on your PAN and realize it's gone, baring an alert that something has left the network, at least). Warez aren't affected by those possibilities, unless you are suffering massive damage and using those rules (which I always have). The Skinlink is helpful, but it isn't the be all- end all you claim it to be.