[X] My Assistant

[hermit]

I compare this to Matrix - whcih has striking similarities in topics, gear and organisation to Unwired - and which also had Initiaitve dice bloat in SR3. There, they had a very specific hardcap on IP dice and nothing would allow you to exceed it forever (there were such exploits, too). Such a rule is absent fro Unwired. That makesme wonder.

It is not explicitly allowed, yes, but the rules of SR4 work exclusively, not inclusively. if it'S not excluded explicitly, it's fair game.

And 6 IP from this combo is not excluded explicitly.

[TheOOB]

There is nothing in the books that even hints at allowing 6 IP. From RAW a simsense booster would work for a Techno, but from a fluff standpoint I take issues, mainly in that there is no sensible way that they could make 'ware that would augment a living persona in such a way, it doesn't make sense.

That said I don't think it breaks Technos to be able to sacrifice their resonance for an early extra pass.

I compare this to Matrix - whcih has striking similarities in topics, gear and organisation to Unwired - and which also had Initiaitve dice bloat in SR3. There, they had a very specific hardcap on IP dice and nothing would allow you to exceed it forever (there were such exploits, too). Such a rule is absent fro Unwired. That makesme wonder.

It is not explicitly allowed, yes, but the rules of SR4 work exclusively, not inclusively. if it'S not excluded explicitly, it's fair game.

And 6 IP from this combo is not excluded explicitly.

So you get your information by comparing things to things that are completely irrelevant to the case at hand? It would explain why you're wrong.

Unwired pg 198

"It is compatible with simsense booster cyberware (so a
hacker in hot sim with a simsense accelerator and simsense booster
cyberware has 5 Initiative Passes). Initiative Passes; this is an exception
to the rule that normally limits IPs to 4)."

It mentions that a hacker who has booth these enhancements has 5 IP, and that this is a specific exception to the normal 4 IP rule. As it specifically says you get 5 passes, there is no information to say that 6 would ever be possible, ergo anyone saying 6 would be allowed is wrong.

In fact I was a little wrong before, a Techno cannot use a simsense booster to get 5 passes, because a simsense booster specifically says it stacks with a simsense accelerator to allow 5 passes, and Technos can't use a simsense accelerator.

[Ghost_in_the_Sys...]

In fact I was a little wrong before, a Techno cannot use a simsense booster to get 5 passes, because a simsense booster specifically says it stacks with a simsense accelerator to allow 5 passes, and Technos can't use a simsense accelerator.

Correct, so they get their 4th pass quicker, but take just as long to get their 5th pass. I figure it isn't very game breaking or anything.

[hermit]

So you get your information by comparing things to things that are completely irrelevant to the case at hand?

No, I do not. Can you read?

As it specifically says you get 5 passes, there is no information to say that 6 would ever be possible, ergo anyone saying 6 would be allowed is wrong.

In fact I was a little wrong before, a Techno cannot use a simsense booster to get 5 passes, because a simsense booster specifically says it stacks with a simsense accelerator to allow 5 passes, and Technos can't use a simsense accelerator.

It isn't forbidden, therefore it is okay so long as the GM takes no offense to it. Looked into your Core Rules lately? That's no conclusive evidence.

But that it needs a simsense accelerator stops this exploit in it's tracks.

[Fortinbras]

hermit, you aren't talking about a simsense booster, you're talking about a simsense accelerator. The accelerator is a commlink modification. It can't be used to modify a living persona, as a living persona had no modification slots.

If you are talking about adding a simsense booster to Advanced Overclocking, the advanced overclocking description caps your IPs at 5.

[Ghost_in_the_Sys...]

It isn't forbidden, therefore it is okay

You know what else isn't forbidden? Grabbing a quantum string and pulling on it to cause your opponents to be spontaneously erased from existence. No roll or anything!

GM approval is irrelevant because GM dis/approval can overturn actual rules if so desired, so you can't use 'if the GM approves, I can have 6 IP' as an argument, because if the GM approves, I can naturally have 8 IP and 20s in all stats.

[TheOOB]

No, I do not. Can you read?

You're referencing an SR3 book, it's irrelevant and can only weaken any points you make.

There are only two things in any SR4 books I can find that allow a character to exceed 4 IPs, the simsense accelerator, and the advanced overclocking echo. The simsense accelerator mentions it stacks with a simsense booster to give the character 5 IP(which it specifically mentions the character would have 5 IP, and this is an exception to the 4 IP rule). Advanced overclocking could be argued would stack with the simsense booster, but it's irrelevant as it requires overclocking as a prerequisite, and once again caps you at 5 IP specifically.

Since a technomancer cannot benefit from a simsense accelerator(it's a commlink accessory that increases the commlinks persona, not a living persona), a techno cannot get 5 IP without advanced overlocking. A simsense booster technically works by the rules to give 4 IP, but really it's not that expensive to submerge yourself once to get overclocking, so it's kinda silly to do.

[hermit]

You're referencing an SR3 book, it's irrelevant and can only weaken any points you make.

Right. Because ... you say so? Pointing out how excessive IP were handled in previous editions is evil becaue ... why? It doesn't please you?

As for the rest: I agrees in my last post already. It seems you really cannot read.

[TheOOB]

Right. Because ... you say so? Pointing out how excessive IP were handled in previous editions is evil becaue ... why? It doesn't please you?

Because we're talking about SR4, and SR3 rules have nothing to do with SR4, and bringing up irrelevant book entries to make your point sound valid are needlessly confusing. If I was a lawyer in US court, and brought up a law in the articles of confederation, I'd probably be laughed out of court.

[hermit]

Because we're talking about SR4, and SR3 rules have nothing to do with SR4

Which is nonsense, given thesimilarities between the two books in question (the gear even has the same names in large arts).

If I was a lawyer in US court, and brought up a law in the articles of confederation, I'd probably be laughed out of court.

I'm not going there, but I think this is baiting, is it not?

[TheOOB]

I'm not going there, but I think this is baiting, is it not?

Not baiting, more a (admittedly hyperbole) metaphor used to elaborate a point.

[Fortinbras]

As for the rest: I agrees in my last post already. It seems you really cannot read.

Your translator makes it difficult to decipher into English.

[hermit]

Unlike you, I at least make an effort at foreign languages. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) But I admit, reverse translating equipment names from translated books leads to strange results.

[Fortinbras]

You have no idea how many languages I, or anyone on this board, do or do not speak.
For example, every Texan has to speak a little bit of Spanish just to order a hamburger.

[Cain]

I'm sorry, TJ, but the rules are pretty clear. Just because it says "This is an exception" here and "this is an exception" there does not mean they equal two cumulative exceptions.

[hermit]

For example, every Texan has to speak a little bit of Spanish just to order a hamburger.

You deal out but can't take in well, can you?

I'm sorry, TJ, but the rules are pretty clear. Just because it says "This is an exception" here and "this is an exception" there does not mean they equal two cumulative exceptions.

They are clear because stacking the exceptions does not work because of other issues, not because stacking two boni doesn't work in SR4. Or does "custom grip adds 1 die to the pool" and "smartlink adds 2 die to the pool" also not stack?

And I'm not TJ. I also had this avatar a lot longer than him.

[Fortinbras]

You deal out but can't take in well, can you?

I wasn't making fun of you or disrespecting you in any way. I'm sorry if it came off that way. I was saying that the way your posts are translated into English are honestly difficult to understand sometimes.
With the way your post was translated, your acceptance of the 5 IP limit was not clear. I was letting you know why we didn't understand you.

You, on the other hand, felt the need to imply I and other posters couldn't read and were monolingual.

[Medicineman]

.

[HunterHerne]

You deal out but can't take in well, can you?


They are clear because stacking the exceptions does not work because of other issues, not because stacking two boni doesn't work in SR4. Or does "custom grip adds 1 die to the pool" and "smartlink adds 2 die to the pool" also not stack?

Actually, Personalized Grip adds one point of recoil compensation to ranged weapons, and a die to melee weapons. Smartlink doesn`t seem to have much of an effect on melee weapons.

[hermit]

Oh, it does? Good to know, but doesn't invalidate my point. What about a reflex recorder and smartlink? Do those not stack?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I'm sorry, TJ, but the rules are pretty clear. Just because it says "This is an exception" here and "this is an exception" there does not mean they equal two cumulative exceptions.

I think you have me confused with Hermit there Cain... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif) But that is okay, apparently it happens from time to time.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Oh, it does? Good to know, but doesn't invalidate my point. What about a reflex recorder and smartlink? Do those not stack?

A Reflex Recorder adds a Level to the Skill Chosen, and a Smartlink adds Bonus Dice... They are not the same kind of bonus here, so do not interact in the same ways. So No, they don't. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Grinder]

Good job, dudes. A couple of reports coming in regarding this thread. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Good job, dudes. A couple of reports coming in regarding this thread. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

Not sure Why, but okay... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

[Grinder]

Bitching and moaning. And everyone's just an innocent victim. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)