[X] My Assistant

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

You guys complain about WAR! breaking the game, but RC, SR4A, and AU working in tandem will net you a chance to roll 41 dice with a sniper rifle (updated value). There isn't much to break after that.

Except why would you want to do so? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

All this talk about breaking the game actually requires you to want to break the game... *shrug* I just don't see the appeal. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Christian Lafay]

Except why would you want to do so? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

All this talk about breaking the game actually requires you to want to break the game... *shrug* I just don't see the appeal. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

I see it as fun thought problems, like theoretical physics. Amusing, but should have little to no real application.

[Draco18s]

You guys complain about WAR! breaking the game, but RC, SR4A, and AU working in tandem will net you a chance to roll 41 dice with a sniper rifle (updated value). There isn't much to break after that.

It's easier to just not let players be snipers, really. The occasional assassination, sure break out the Barret. The rest of the time? Leave it at home, bring a shotfun.

[Christian Lafay]

It's easier to just not let players be snipers, really. The occasional assassination, sure break out the Barret. The rest of the time? Leave it at home, bring a shotfun.

Mafia Master Thrower... "Leave the gun, take the cannoli. You can kill with it too."

[Raiki]

It's easier to just not let players be snipers, really. The occasional assassination, sure break out the Barret. The rest of the time? Leave it at home, bring a shotfun.

Best. Freudian. Slip. Ever.


~R~

[Draco18s]

Best. Freudian. Slip. Ever.

Oh, no, that was intentional. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[James McMurray]

It's easier to just not let players be snipers, really. The occasional assassination, sure break out the Barret. The rest of the time? Leave it at home, bring a shotfun.

Even easier to let them be snipers, but have some (many) fights indoors. After a couple of times sitting on a rooftop and watching their 25+ sniper dice be completely meaningless, coupled with 10 initiative passes where they say "I keep delaying" they're likely to start re-evaluating their combat strategy. If they don't, then they're doing what they want without being too powerful, so it's all good.

[HunterHerne]

That said, you don't want to leave him high and dry every run.Let him use those dice to cover a door in case people break away and try to make a run for it.

[The Jopp]

Even easier to let them be snipers, but have some (many) fights indoors.

And pray the sniper does not have the microwave radar inside his head and wallpiercing ammo...

[HunterHerne]

And pray the sniper does not have the microwave radar inside his head and wallpiercing ammo...

Maybe. The targets still get a defensive bonus, at least from the walls seperating them.

[CanRay]

And pray the sniper does not have the microwave radar inside his head and wallpiercing ammo...

Again with the Sniper Talk, and again someone will reference "Smoking Aces".

[James McMurray]

And pray the sniper does not have the microwave radar inside his head and wallpiercing ammo...

If he's put that many resources into and the team can engineer fights close to the outer walls, let him have his heyday. The targets are still going to have more armor against him than they would have (brick walls give 12 armor, concrete 16, and they can up that by putting more barriers in the way). The point is not to completely negate sniping as an option, but to make sure it isn't an "I win" button. Even microwave radar and antitank armor in a gun that starts at -3 AP isn't an I Win button, since they're better defended against him than they are against guys inside the building with assault rifles (at least once the surprise is gone).

[CanRay]

On the flipside, the guy inside with the assault rifle can easily have fire returned on him.

Mr. Sniper will have a few rounds before the Rotodrones show up with the LMGs loaded with nasty ammo.

[James McMurray]

Right, it's give and take. Less likely to take out enemies + less likely to be taken out vs. more likely to take out enemies but more likely to be fired on.

[Mr. Smileys]

don't forget that sniper rifles don't have a minimum range (short is 0-150) so he could use his Ares Desert Fox or Barrett 121 just as good indoors as he can out doors. And because most sniper rifles are SA he can shoot just as many times as the person using a pistol (and takes the same penalties, not greater, for shooting while engaged in Melee) but he is doing 7P-9P damage instead of 3P-6P. Even shooting narrow bursts your average SMG does only 7P and your average Assault Rifle does only 8P with the same narrow burst, but the rifle suffers less penalties from recoil.

[HunterHerne]

Which is why you, as GM, need to be able to be flexible. HAve a few surprises once in a while. Hell, use the prime runner rules to outfit the occasional spider with the same radar, then go to town on the sniper with a specially outfitted interior defence drone that he was working on in his free time. Obviously it can't happen every run or the PC's will just get pissed, but after that first time, they'll consider their options.

(I understand this is unlikely, unless the point of the run is a tailchase where the spider is setting up the run to test his new toy(s), but it could still be fun.)

[James McMurray]

Bursts in our group are more often used to take away dodge dice, though it depends on who you're shooting at. But yeah, sniper rifles are nasty. In a toe-to-toe firefight assault rifles and sniper rifles are fairly balanced with one another. It's only if you allow constant unanswerable strikes from distant snipers that the problems kick in.

Note that "sniping" doesn't have to mean that they have a sniper rifle. An assault rifle is equally capable of being a sniper weapon (ARs have 350 for long, and -2 is nothing to a dedicated gunman). The ability to do FA and bursts while sniping can drastically increase the sniper's damage output.

[HunterHerne]

Long range in SR4A is -3, but otherwise, I agree. The advantages of the first shot with surprise on the sniper's side, and being realtively unanswerable (for a few shots at least) make sniping very powerful when appropriate.

[CanRay]

Just remember to set your AK-97 to 300, because that's how many infidels you'll kill with it on that "Setting". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Draco18s]

And pray the sniper does not have the microwave radar inside his head and wallpiercing ammo...

And a Tacnet R4. Because someone I play with has done this. He fired through 2 concrete barriers (one floor of a parking garage up to two floors above) and ignored the barrier ratings for the target's defense almost entirely.

[James McMurray]

How did he ignore 32 armor from 2 concrete barriers? Methinks there may have been shenanigans involved.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

And a Tacnet R4. Because someone I play with has done this. He fired through 2 concrete barriers (one floor of a parking garage up to two floors above) and ignored the barrier ratings for the target's defense almost entirely.

Of ocurse, to use that radar, you have to be within 100 Meters, which kind of negates the utility of being a Sniper...

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

How did he ignore 32 armor from 2 concrete barriers? Methinks there may have been shenanigans involved.

Well, since each wall is it's own barrier, you do not add them to determine if the Bullet Penetrates...

If a character wants to shoot through a barrier to hit a target behind it, add the barrier’s Armor rating to whatever armor the target already possesses. The attacker also suffers a –6 Blind Fire dice pool modifier because he cannot see the intended target, unless the barrier is transparent.
If the weapon’s modified Damage Value does not exceed the barrier’s Armor rating (modified by the weapon’s AP), then the weapon
is simply not strong enough to pierce the barrier, and the attack automatically fails.

A Barret with 9p and AP -8 (APDS) will penetrate a Barrier Rating of 16 Before Net Hits are even calculated. And will continue to do so, as there is no falloff when shooting through a Barrier. (Yes, I know that it is not logical, but at least the target gets the benefit of that Barrier as additional Armor)... In the end, the target still gets his +16 Armor from the remaining Barrier rating of the two barriers (8 for each wall/floor in the example), but there you go.

Sniping is awesome powerful... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Stahlseele]

Hu?
Does one not get the barrier rating of each and every last single barrier added as additional armor? O.o
So, for 2 walls, it would be 16+16?
Don't tell me only the strongest single wall in a complete building between me and the sniper gets added <.<

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Hu?
Does one not get the barrier rating of each and every last single barrier added as additional armor? O.o
So, for 2 walls, it would be 16+16?
Don't tell me only the strongest single wall in a complete building between me and the sniper gets added <.<

You do... But the AP of the Weapon Subtracts from that Armor... So in this case, 8+8 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Of course, you could apply the AP only once if you like, but that is not how it is stated. Each barrier is its own entity.