[X] My Assistant

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Bah 0.1 Essence
Noobs
try to beat the 0.02 of my Char "Cyb Ork" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

with a boasting Dance
Medicineman

Well... My Cyberlogician had an Essence of 0.015 before he started trying to recover his Essence Holes though transgenic treatments. Long Story...

[Cheops]

Unhinged (Unwired) and Running Cracked (Runner's Companion). Both are shit and break the system. Also anything with Jason Hardy listed as the line dev.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Unhinged (Unwired) and Running Cracked (Runner's Companion). Both are shit and break the system. Also anything with Jason Hardy listed as the line dev.

Two of the Best books out there... Just Wow... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Blade]

While I wouldn't completely ban RC, I certainly take a very close look to characters using elements from it. There is a lot of potential for power creep in that book.

[sabs]

Unwired is actually pretty good. It has some issues, but the pirated software, and registerd stuff adds some money sinks into the otherwise cheap hacker.

Software Clusters are awesome. The Virus ideas are... intersting.

The Agent armies and the DDOS stuff is kinda meh.

[X-Kalibur]

I agree with limiting or preventing control thoughts and mind probe.
SnS going to shotguns OR not allowing net hits to increase the stun damage (or just capping it at half skill rating perhaps?) Given that they do decent S damage and only get half impact AND cause a -2 to all dice pools regardless of resisting the taser dance. For cost they are quite powerful.

Keep an eye on allowing the use of the restricted gear positive quality. Sometimes it's totally cool and allows a character to shine, other times it just allows a character to steam roll and steal glory from others. The rigger using it to soup up his car? Totally awesome. The gun bunny using it to make a burst fire barret? Not so much.

But most importantly make sure you're more aware of the rules than your players. It's very easy to take 2 or 3 interpretations to almost any rule in the book. So discuss it with your players for possible group decided interpretations on grey areas.

[Crazy Ivan]

Generally, the only things I "ban" are SURGE and Infected. SURGE I will allow as long as we don't jump into the realm of the silly or excessive. Admittedly, I'm a relatively new GM to Shadowrun (about 8 monthes experience), its a basic thing. Infected I have a problem with just on concept, but one of the first groups I ran for Shadowrun had a player who insisted on playing something "not common, cause he's played every other race." He ran a vampire, and was promptly surprised when his street samurai infected (we'd determined that the implants were in place before infection, so Regen wasn't functioning to max output) couldn't deflect bullets.

Though admittedly, this is a player who played "that other game" and was treated to a DM there who firmly believed that it wasn't knowledge skills and background, but simply a title of a class that determined everything about you. Very frustrating.

[Draco18s]

Just as a point of curiosity, who would allow a player to show up to the char gen session and say, "I want the Amnesia (level 2) quality" and allow it?

[Oracle]

Just as a point of curiosity, who would allow a player to show up to the char gen session and say, "I want the Amnesia (level 2) quality" and allow it?

I would. But my players know me well enough not to. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

[James McMurray]

We allowed everything at chargen and only banned or house ruled things as they became a problem. So far the only bans are capsule and SnS ammo, because their damage potential is too high compared to the cost. IMO the game works as written for the most part, and you only need to ban thing that you specifically don't like. Asking others to tell you what those bits are is pointless.

[Draco18s]

I would. But my players know me well enough not to. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

I did it to my GM on Sunday. I was kinda poking around at a character and went, "Can I have amnesia? Level2?" And he just groaned out a "No."

[Faelan]

I would allow Amnesia Level 2 if it was a very small party, of one or two players. To do it right just takes too much attention to one character for it to be fair for a larger party.

[Draco18s]

He wouldn't let me be a double agent either. Shucks.

[Raiki]

Also I should have been more specific, I noticed I left out the important part, I only require it for living targets. Possess the car, drone, statue, whatever all you want. I really tire of the way people fling the "You have never" around followed by casual references to something being silly or absurd. Try to be civil. I have had it happen, I have seen it abused, I have had the misfortune of playing with a power gamer, and GMing for one, so everything I can do to head off abuse before it happens saves a lot of arguing at the table. This one slipped by and that is why I enacted it, it was essentially a ban on free mind control.

Okay, I admit my response was a bit harsher than was strictly necessary. As I've stated before, I'm an ex-debater, and we're trained to make strong authoritative declarations. I appologize if I came off as rude.

As for your rulings, this rule is much more reasonable. I honestly can't say that I agree with it, but I can see where you're coming from and won't call it absurd. I would probably still play a possession mage even with this restriction because I love the feel and flavor so much.

Incidentally, do you also ban Control Thoughts?

Also, my condolences on the munchkin situation.

Edit:Spelling.

~R~

[LurkerOutThere]

And whenever possession rules debates like this come up, I get the peculiar impression more often than not that people slamming possession especially brutally haven't read the possession clarification stuff in Digital Grimoire. Draco18's thing with possessed armor is specifically dealt with in DG, for example (though admittedly it would work better with military armor than other armor because of the Body x 3 limit for encumbrance with those).

Really? I found the entire section in digital grimore an affirmation of why possesion should be banned. The notion that spirits of possesion traditions are just as easy to manage as spirits of other traditions is flatly disproven by having to have an entire section on "oh guys their totally balance because of binding material costs and a -4 dice modifier to posses dikoted katanas." You may feel otherwise but I stand by my statement again and again those who defend possesion most strenuously in it's current incarnation are the ones who are riding that power curve.

[Raiki]

You may feel otherwise but I stand by my statement again and again those who defend possesion most strenuously in it's current incarnation are the ones who are riding that power curve.

And completely ignore any evidence to the contrary? Like for example, this:

You're half right and 100% wrong.

I have played possession tradition mages before (I'm actually a voodoo fanboy, not just in SR but in life in general), though not with any of the ally spirit/invoking/chanelling/F12 spirit shenanigans that are so often brought up here to prove how "broken" they are. However, I'm not playing one currently, have had runners play them before in my previous games, and actually have someone playing a Qabbalist in my game right now.

Just because a system has the potential to be broken, doesn't mean that no one can enjoy using said system without abusing it. If we're going to trim out everything that can be abused in SR, there goes the matrix, rigging, all mages, gun modifications, the BP/Karmagen system (because the priority system is much harder to min/max), any race not in the core book (and orks are pushing it). I could keep going, but I don't want to beat the point into the ground. The Shadowrun system has its flaws, yes, but let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater.


~R~

[suoq]

Adding Krav Maga. Not sure how it hasn't be mentioned in this thread already.

Not banned but modified: Any gun that contains a F accessory built in but is only rated R, should, in my opinion, be rated F. Examples: Morrissey Élan & HK-227X.

[Raiki]

Adding Krav Maga. Not sure how it hasn't be mentioned in this thread already.

I've always looked a bit askance at any of the martial arts rules. Based on what styles/maneuvers the player wants to take, I have yet to need to hit any of it with the ban-hammer, but I have added it to the list of Things To Watch Out For.


~R~

[X-Kalibur]

He's referring to spending a measly 5 BP on Krav Maga to take aim as a free action or draw/ready weapon as a free action. It's definitely riding the line of cheesy.

[LurkerOutThere]

Your evidence isn't as contrary as you think Raiki but i'm not going to pursue it further. Keep telling yourself that possession is balanced and fair with conjuring if it's what you must do. I would say the fact the game designers felt there needed to be a whole tract in Digital Grimore saying "yea guys it's really totally balanced, but here's a whole bunch of optional rules to pare it down" is fairly compelling evidence to the contrary.

[Raiki]

Okay, I'm good with agreeing to disagree if you are. I really didn't mean to start an argument, as you're one of the posters on here that I have quite a bit of respect for. Good gaming, chummer.


~R~

[Faelan]

Okay, I admit my response was a bit harsher than was strictly necessary. As I've stated before, I'm an ex-debater, and we're trained to make strong authoritatize declarations. I appologize if I came off as rude.

As for your rulings, this rule is much more reasonable. I honestly can't say that I agree with it, but I can see where you're coming from and won't call it absurd. I would probably still play a possession mage even with this restriction because I love the feel and flavor so much.

Incidentally, do you also ban Control Thoughts?

Also, my condolences on the munchkin situation.


~R~

I don't have a munchkin situation because I took control of it. I do not ban Control Thoughts because the resistance mechanism is much more equitable. My players get Shielding and a skill added to the mess instead of pure attributes. They have an even chance instead of the deck being stacked against them.

[Raiki]

I don't have a munchkin situation because I took control of it.

Fair enough, sounds like just different GMing styles to me. I don't like to hard-ban anything, I prefer to work out any potential problems/broken rules if/when they come up. Most of them don't make it past character creation.

I do not ban Control Thoughts because the resistance mechanism is much more equitable. My players get Shielding and a skill added to the mess instead of pure attributes. They have an even chance instead of the deck being stacked against them.

Honestly, I was just curious if it was a dislike for mind control in general or if it was possession specifically. I've seen it both ways. And you should do whatever is best for your game, I'll do the same. It takes all kinds, even in the shadows.


~R~

[HunterHerne]

Especially in the shadows

[longbowrocks]

Two of the Best books out there... Just Wow... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

You guys complain about WAR! breaking the game, but RC, SR4A, and AU working in tandem will net you a chance to roll 41 dice with a sniper rifle (updated value). There isn't much to break after that.