New player needing help, Chargen and other stuff Options

[Alucard]

Hey, everyone. I'm new to the dumpshock forums, so I just wanted to introduce myself. Also, I was looking for help with creating my character. I was browsing the sample characters here on the forum and didn't quite find what I was looking for so I figured I'd just ask. I haven't played SR in like 15 years, with the exception of a couple of MUDs in the interim just to get my fix. I've never played SR4 at all, so this is a big change as well. Anyway, my character concept is a cyberninja. I'm thinking Snake Eyes from G.I. Joe with some 'ware. Or maybe Raiden from MGS4. Inspiration from those two at least. So, can anyone help me out?

I want to focus on speed primarily. Extra init passes, and high agility. Blades high, of course, also some firearms. Cybereyes are likely. I'm still on the fence for wired reflexes or move-by-wire. High infiltration skills, and etc. Metatype human (mostly just to save the BPs for other stuff). Anyone have any good builds for this? The Covert Ops specialist seemed to be lacking in the SR4A book. I have access to every book, also, btw. And 400 BPs.

[baronspam]

Hey, everyone. I'm new to the dumpshock forums, so I just wanted to introduce myself. Also, I was looking for help with creating my character. I was browsing the sample characters here on the forum and didn't quite find what I was looking for so I figured I'd just ask. I haven't played SR in like 15 years, with the exception of a couple of MUDs in the interim just to get my fix. I've never played SR4 at all, so this is a big change as well. Anyway, my character concept is a cyberninja. I'm thinking Snake Eyes from G.I. Joe with some 'ware. Or maybe Raiden from MGS4. Inspiration from those two at least. So, can anyone help me out?

I want to focus on speed primarily. Extra init passes, and high agility. Blades high, of course, also some firearms. Cybereyes are likely. I'm still on the fence for wired reflexes or move-by-wire. High infiltration skills, and etc. Metatype human (mostly just to save the BPs for other stuff). Anyone have any good builds for this? The Covert Ops specialist seemed to be lacking in the SR4A book. I have access to every book, also, btw. And 400 BPs.

First things first- set some priorties as to what you want to be good at. If you try to be equally good at being a combat monster and a infiltration specialist you will be so-so at both. You can be very good at one an good enough at the other to include it in your overall build. But are you a fighter who can also sneak or a sneaker who can also fight?

You have already answered the question of augmented vs. awakened in favor of augmented, which works fine.

Stats- Good agility and reaction are a must. If you are going blades try to keep strength up as well for melee damage. Wired reflexes will get your reaction up and give you more inititive passes. So will synaptic boosters as a much lower Essence chost, but its F--- All expenseive in terms of starting resoruces. Muscle toner under bioware will give you some extra agililty. Look seriously at Synthacardium. It adds to Althletics checks, which is very in line for a ninja/infiltration guy. Gymnastics under the athletics skills group can be subsituted for dodge when doing full defense, so its also a good way to get extra dodge dice.

Body is nice but you only have so many points to go around. Get what you can. If you want to empahsise the Infiltration aspect more then get at least a mid range logic as well. You will want the Hardware skill for maglocks/physical security systems, and you probably don't want to find that you dumped logic the first time you need to get through a locked door.

Skills: This is really where you have to start to choose your priority. I think a few points of the Althletics skill group either way, Blades of course, maybe pistols or automatics as a mid range level. Take the Stealth skill group at a mid range. From there you have to decide where to go. If you are primarily infiltration get the Stealth group at 4 and take Hardware and Locksmith as well. If you are more of a combat guy who can sneak a bit sink more points into your existing combat skills and maybe add some others (you could upgrade Blades to the Close Combat skill group if you wanted to be a master of all melee techniques, or add some unarmed to represent general martial ability).

It never hurts to have a secondary skill like first aid, demolitons, piloting, a couple of social skills, etc, that are not related to your "main thing." You are already doing this somewhat by covering the close combat/infiltration roles, but if you have enough points pick something unrealted up. Everyone should bring a few different abilities to the party. You won't be great at all of them but you want multiple compentencies whenever possible.
Budget enough points for two or three contacts. Everyone should be able to contribute to legwork and have some options for bringing in jobs.

Other than that, grab the core rule book and start adding up the points.

[Alucard]

Thanks for the reply. Here's what I've got so far, as I'm working on it. Maybe some feedback?

Metatype: Human

Positive Qualities
Ambidextrous - 5

Negative Qualities
Addiction: BTL - 10
Flashbacks - 5
In Debt - 20
(I didn't want to max out negative qualities, but the character's backstory and my GM made it kind of necessary)

Attributes - 200 BP
Body 3
Agility 5
Reaction 3
Strength 3
Charisma 3
Intuition 4
Logic 4
Willpower 3

Free Knowledge Skills - 24


Now I'm going to start working on skills. Any suggestions? Also, for the record, I'm not looking to necessarily excel at either combat or infiltration, but a healthy mix of both. I'm having trouble deciding if I should use skill groups or individual skills. I can't specialize in skill groups, though, right?

[HunterHerne]

Correct, you can't specialize. But, if you plan to use 3 or 4 skills in a group, you should get the group, and specialize/improve later. I agree with baronspam on his ideas, you really want to know if you prefer combat or infiltration, it can mean the difference between surviving a fight, and not getting in one in the first place. However, I will say that if ou focus on combat, you want at least minimal entrance ability, so hardware or locksmith at low ranks should be considered.

[Vuron]

Remember that the BP chargen/Karma advancement ruleset favors specialization over generalist characters. It's more efficient from a character advancement perspective to max out one schtick rather than being mediocre at a large number of things.

That being said not every game is going to feature optimized characters and in many cases you'll have a lot of fun fielding a less than optimal strategy.

Keep in mind that for a melee specialist the Ork is a good metatype. It gets a good body and strength for a very minimal investment and doesn't penalize any major ability for melee/infiltration. Basically unless your GM is going to play with a ton of metahuman prejudice the Ork is a great start to virtually every build (something I personally dislike).

Skill Groups are expensive and subject to low caps as well as no specializations. That typically means that you are going to want your core schticks purchased seperately. Athletics is a good candidate for a skill group but I think for most games you can avoid Stealth and go with purchasing Infiltration and Shadowing separately. I actually like the Close Combat group for most characters but for a melee specialist you are probably going to need Blades up high. The other thing is if you are going to operate solo you probably need either social skills (Influence skill group) so you can bypass social obstacles or Electronics so you can bypass some common security features. If you are going to be working with a face or a hacker you can generally rely on them to do the heavy lifting but it's nice to have some overlap.

Even if you are going to be stealthy ninja guy realize that sooner or later you will want to shoot something, make sure you have a somewhat decent ranged weapon skill. Pistols are concealable, Bows are stealthy, long arms give you range, and automatics give you maximum dakka.

Take gear that makes you better in your core competencies. Synthacardium makes you a better athlete, wired makes you go faster, cybereyes allow you to operate in darkness, etc.

[Alucard]

Alright. So I've done active skills and contacts. All that's left are knowledge skilles and gear. I maxed out resources so I might be able to take some bp back if I need it, but for now I'll let it be. I'll give the breakdown of what I have so far.

Metatype: Human (0BP)

Positive Qualities (5 BP)
Ambidextrous -5

Negative Qualities (+35 BP)
Addiction: BTL +10
Flashbacks +5
In Debt +20

Attributes (200 BP)
Body - 3
Agility - 5
Reaction - 3
Strength - 3
Charisma - 3
Intuition - 4
Logic - 4
Willpower - 3

Free Knowledge Skills - 24

Active skills (164 BP +4 BP Specialities)
Blades (Swords) - 5 (+2)
Athletics Skill Group - 2
Infiltration (Urban) - 5 (+2)
Shadowing - 3
Automatics - 3
Pistols - 3
Dodge - 3
Pilot Ground - 2
Computer - 2
Data Search - 2
Locksmith - 2
Hardware - 3

Contacts (12 BP)
Fixer - Connections 4 / Loyalty 2
Street Doc - Connections 2 / Loyalty 4


Alright, so any suggestions on changes? Or the upcoming gear?

[HunterHerne]

A commlink is a must have. And with that, a decent firewall. Remember that firewalls aren`t restricted by the systeméresponse cap other programs are. Hmmm. As for programs, most characters will be able to use Browse and analyze. These are basically google and your virus scanner, but they serve other purposes, too.

For actual gear, you`ll want ear buds (with some audio enhancements), a sub-vocal mic for near-silant communication with your team, a tag eraser, and Radio signal Scanner (rating up to you, I usually go with R3). But, the tag eraser and signal scanner are only really important if the GM is going to use RFID tags against you (I would). Vision enhancements aren`t bad, either, especially ones that let you see in the dark, or at least low-light conditions.

You will need ID`s, probably 2 or 3, and be sure to get licenses for everything you will be carrying with those ID`s, generally.

as far as changes to the above I would consider getting a couple ranks in Ettiquette. It`s almost the social version of Infiltration, and can save you from major mishaps.

[Alucard]

Hey, thanks for the feedback. I've dropped Unarmed from 3 to 2, and Automatics from 3 to 2. Sacrificed some of my secondary combat utility to put those puts into giving me an ettiquette of two. I'm looking at the commlinks now.

Also, for my character concept, is a skinlink worthwhile?

Gear I know I want/need so far

Commlink
Chameleon Suit
Monofilament sword
Some sort of handgun with smartlink
Cybereyes (which will probably be Rating 3 with almost every option installed)
Earbuds (with at least damping, enhancement, recorder and sound link. Considering spation recognition and select sound filter. Maybe cyberears?)
Some form of initiative booster. I'd like to get synaptic boosters (I think?) from the bioware stuff but those are expensive. I'm also considering move-by-wire over wired reflexes. Anyone have an opinion on that?
Gecko tape gloves (for awesome spider-man or creepy ninja on the ceiling moments)
I was thinking an area jammer and white noise generator... are they worth it?
Also two fake SINs and licenses to go with them for any of my Restricted gear.

I have 270,000 nuyen to spend so far. So I should be able to take a few expensive enhancements. Let me know what you think.

[HunterHerne]

Move-by-wire is useful, I`ve used it a couple times. The only trouble is the massive expense over Wired Reflexes. White Noise is useful when you don`t want to be overheard in a busy-ish public place, not something you are likely to focus on, with so few social skills. The area Jammer is occasionally helpful, usually for messing up an enemy hacker`s plans once you`ve been noticed on the run.

Skinlink is very helpful for using your gear with minimal chance of being hacked. Just remember to turn off your wireless, or at least run hidden mode, during a run. You may want to buy a kit (Tools, 332 SR4A) for use with your hardware skill.

I would also consider getting a Keycard copier, a couple maglock passkeys, and maybe a sequencer. An Autopicker is also helpful to your locksith skill when it comes up. These are the usual B&E equipment (335 SR4A) you`ll need to get into places illicitely.

[Alucard]

Alright, so I worked on it and this is what I've come up with. Let me know what you think. Feedback is greatly appreciated.

Metatype: Human

Attributes
Body 3
Agility 5 (8 )
Reaction 3 (7)
Strength 3 (6)
Charisma 3
Intuition 4
Logic 4 (6)
Willpower 3

Edge 2
Essence: 0.6
Initiative: 11
Initiative Passes: 3
Matrix Init: 9

Active Skills
Blades (Swords) 5 (+2)
Unarmed 2
Dodge 3 (5)
Pistols 3
Automatics 2
Athletics Skill Group 2
-Climbing 2
-Gymnastics 2
-Running 2
-Swimming 2
Infiltration (Urban) 5 (+2)
Shadowing 3
Etiquette 2
Computer 2
Electronic Warfare 2
Hardware 3
Locksmith 2
Pilot Ground Craft 2

Knowledge Skills
Safe Houses 2
Security Design 3
Security Procedures 3
Corporate Politics 2
Cyber Clinics 2
Matrix Security 3

Language Skills
English N
Japanese 3
German 2
Cantonese 2
Spanish 2

Qualities
Ambidextrous -5
Addiction (Moderate) BTL +10
Flashbacks (Uncommon) +5
In Debt +20

Lifestyle
Middle - 1 month

Contacts
Maurice "Butterball" May (Ork Fixer) Loyalty 2 / Connections 4
Dr. Naomi Perez (Human Street Doc) Loyalty 4 / Connections 2

Resources 50 BP (250,000 nuyen + 20,000 In Debt = 270,000 nuyen)

Augmentations
Move-By-Wire 2
Cybereyes Rating 3 (Eye Recorder, Flare Compensation, Image Link, Low Light Vision, Smartlink, Thermographic Vision, Vision Enhancement 2, Vision Magnification)
Cyberears Rating 3 (Increased Sensitivity, Audio Enhancement 3, Damper, Ear Recorder, Select Sound Filter 1, Sound Link, Spacial Recognizer, Balance Augmenter)
Muscle Augmentation 3
Muscle toner 3
Cerebral Booster 2

Weapons
2 x Colt Manhunter w/integral Smartgun System and Silencer
10 x spare clips Regular Ammo
10 x spare clips EX-explosive Ammo
10 x spare clips Stick-n-Shock Ammo
Ares Alpha w/integral Smartgun system and sound suppressor
10 x spare clips Regular Ammo
Monofilament Sword (Ninja-to styled)
Shock Gloves

Armor and Clothing
Chameleon Suit w/Thermal Damping 4, Nonconductivity 3, Fire Resistance 1, Insulation 1
Full body Form-Fitting Body Armor
Helmet
SecureTech PPP-System (w/o helmet)
Lined Coat
Actioneer Business Clothes

Matrix Gear
Hermes Ikon Commlink w/Novatech Navi OS
Simrig (modified for BTL/Hot Sim)
AR gloves
Analyze 6
Browse 6
Edit 6
Command 6
Scan 6
Agent 3

Other Gear
Subvocal Mic
2 Fake SINs Rating 4
10 Fake Licenses Rating 4
Hardware Tool Kit
Tag Eraser
Radio Signal Scanner Rating 4
Autopicker Rating 5
Keycard Copier Rating 6
Maglock Passkey Rating 4
Sequencer Rating 4
Wire Clippers
Climbing Gear
Gas Mask
Gecko Tape Gloves
Rappeling Gloves
Grapple Gun
200m Stealth Rope
Catalyst Stick
Medkit Rating 6 (stocked)
2 x Hidden Arm Slides
2 x Concealed holsters
DocWagon Gold Membership (1 year)
Flash-pak
10 x Smoke Grenades
10 x Thermal Smoke Grenades

Left with 715 nuyen left, which I'm considering just blowing on skinlinks for all my external gear. Also, how does one put the "spoiler" thing on a post so that I can hide this unless someone wants to see it?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Well, don't have my books handy, but it looks like you have three pieces of gear that nead Restricted Gear Qualities (unless you have less stringent requirements)...

The MBW II, Muscle Toner 3, and Muscle Augmentation 3 are all above availability 12 (IIRC).

[Alucard]

Yeah. You're right. I'm a moron. LOL Thanks for keeping an eye out for me! So here it is fixed.

Metatype: Human

Attributes
Body 3
Agility 5 (8 )
Reaction 3 (7)
Strength 3 (6)
Charisma 2
Intuition 4
Logic 4 (6)
Willpower 3

Edge 2
Essence: 0.6
Initiative: 11
Initiative Passes: 3
Matrix Init: 9

Active Skills
Blades (Swords) 5 (+2)
Unarmed 2
Dodge 3 (5)
Pistols 3
Automatics 2
Athletics Skill Group 2
-Climbing 2
-Gymnastics 2
-Running 2
-Swimming 2
Infiltration (Urban) 5 (+2)
Shadowing 3
Etiquette 2
Computer 2
Electronic Warfare 2
Hardware 3
Locksmith 2
Pilot Ground Craft 1

Knowledge Skills
Safe Houses 2
Security Design 3
Security Procedures 3
Corporate Politics 2
Cyber Clinics 2
Matrix Security 3

Language Skills
English N
Japanese 3
German 2
Cantonese 2
Spanish 2

Qualities
Ambidextrous -5
Restricted Gear (Move-By-Wire) -5
Restricted Gear (Muscle Augmentation) -5
Restricted Gear (Muscle Toner) -5
Addiction (Moderate) BTL +10
Flashbacks (Uncommon) +5
In Debt +20

Lifestyle
Middle - 1 month

Contacts
Maurice "Butterball" May (Ork Fixer) Loyalty 2 / Connections 4
Dr. Naomi Perez (Human Street Doc) Loyalty 3 / Connections 2

Resources 50 BP (250,000 nuyen + 20,000 In Debt = 270,000 nuyen)

Augmentations
Move-By-Wire 2
Cybereyes Rating 3 (Eye Recorder, Flare Compensation, Image Link, Low Light Vision, Smartlink, Thermographic Vision, Vision Enhancement 2, Vision Magnification)
Cyberears Rating 3 (Increased Sensitivity, Audio Enhancement 3, Damper, Ear Recorder, Select Sound Filter 1, Sound Link, Spacial Recognizer, Balance Augmenter)
Muscle Augmentation 3
Muscle toner 3
Cerebral Booster 2

Weapons
2 x Colt Manhunter w/integral Smartgun System and Silencer
10 x spare clips Regular Ammo
10 x spare clips EX-explosive Ammo
10 x spare clips Stick-n-Shock Ammo
Ares Alpha w/integral Smartgun system and sound suppressor
10 x spare clips Regular Ammo
Monofilament Sword (Ninja-to styled)
Shock Gloves

Armor and Clothing
Chameleon Suit w/Thermal Damping 4, Nonconductivity 3, Fire Resistance 1, Insulation 1
Full body Form-Fitting Body Armor
Helmet
SecureTech PPP-System (w/o helmet)
Lined Coat
Actioneer Business Clothes

Matrix Gear
Hermes Ikon Commlink w/Novatech Navi OS
Simrig (modified for BTL/Hot Sim)
AR gloves
Analyze 6
Browse 6
Edit 6
Command 6
Scan 6
Agent 3

Other Gear
Subvocal Mic
2 Fake SINs Rating 4
10 Fake Licenses Rating 4
Hardware Tool Kit
Tag Eraser
Radio Signal Scanner Rating 4
Autopicker Rating 5
Keycard Copier Rating 6
Maglock Passkey Rating 4
Sequencer Rating 4
Wire Clippers
Climbing Gear
Gas Mask
Gecko Tape Gloves
Rappeling Gloves
Grapple Gun
200m Stealth Rope
Catalyst Stick
Medkit Rating 6 (stocked)
2 x Hidden Arm Slides
2 x Concealed holsters
DocWagon Gold Membership (1 year)
Flash-pak
10 x Smoke Grenades
10 x Thermal Smoke Grenades


Took one point from Charisma to give me ten BP, then one off of Pilot Ground Craft giving me an additional 4, and then knocked Dr. Naomi's loyalty down by a point to give me a total of 15 BPs used on Restricted Gear.

[Halinn]

I'd drop the muscle augmentation to rating 2, for rating 4 muscle toner. You don't get anything from having 6 strength over what 5 would do, and extra agility is always useful.

[Alucard]

Alright. So that won't reduce the damage I do in melee? I'm still reading the rules, and such, so I don't really know. I assumed that melee damage would be like my strength plus the weapon, since this seems to be mostly just like the old WoD system. Even then, though, I might be able to really spare a point of damage if it's really worth it. Plus that would take my agility to the max augmented. Hmm.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Alright. So that won't reduce the damage I do in melee? I'm still reading the rules, and such, so I don't really know. I assumed that melee damage would be like my strength plus the weapon, since this seems to be mostly just like the old WoD system. Even then, though, I might be able to really spare a point of damage if it's really worth it. Plus that would take my agility to the max augmented. Hmm.

Damage for Melee Weapons/Unarmed is Strength/2 (Round up)... So a Strength 5 and 6 both have a base DV of 3.

[Alucard]

Thanks, a lot, Tymeaus. Honestly you've all been pretty awesome and I don't think I could have made this character even halfway appropriately without the feedback and guidance. I went ahead and dropped the muscle augmentation down one and raised the muscle toner. Had to trim some extra ammo (which I spent a ton on, anyway), to make up the extra grand. But it freed up 5 BP since that put my muscle augmentation back in the range of availability, so I didn't need a restricted gear quality for it. So I boosted my automatics skill and replaced the point I took from my contacts.

[phlapjack77]

I think you're missing a really crucial skill, Perception. Drop the pistols or automatics skill (I'd recommend dropping automatics, based on your concept) and pick up Perception...

*edit* and squeeze in the Attention Coprocessor cyberware, iirc it's relatively cheap and a good boost to Perception

[Bushw4cker]

I'd Drop the Stock Commlink and get something a little bit better, remember programs can only be run at ratings higher then system if they have optimize option (Firewall is an exception).
If your not running a hacker or rigger these commlinks will do fine.


Commlink for the Budget Conscious Runner
Novatech Airware w/ Iris Orb OS (2250¥)
Response-3
System-3
Signal-3
Firewall-3
Resident Program (Analyze-3)
Resident Program (Encrypt-3)
ARC-Terminate Connection

Common Use Programs (900¥)
Analyze-3
Encrypt-3
Command-3
Browse-3
Scan-3
Edit-3


Commlink for the Paranoid Runner
Novatech Airware w/ Custom OS (4850¥)
Response-3
System-3
Signal-3
Firewall-6
Resident Program (Analyze-6)
Resident Program (Encrypt-6)
ARC-Terminate Connection

Common Use Programs (2600¥)
*Analyze-6
*Encrypt-6
Command-3
Edit-3
Browse-3
Scan-3
* (Optimization-3, Ergonomic) Options


Commlink for the Veteran Runner
Custom Novatech Airware w/ Custom OS (11750¥)
Response-5
System-5
Signal-5
Firewall-6
Resident Program (Analyze-6)
Resident Program (Encrypt-6)
ARC-Terminate Connection

Unrestriced Agent-3 (3600¥)

Common Use Programs (3450¥)
*Analyze-6
Command-3
*Encrypt-6
*Browse-6
Edit-3
Scan-3
* (Optimization-3, Ergonomic) Options

[Bushw4cker]

Commlink rolls Firewall + Analyze (Resident Program) to detect hacking attempts, then the hacker would have to break encryption, so the last two commlinks I posted are as unhackable as your going to get in SR4, with a starting character

[Alucard]

Awesome. I honestly don't know how I managed to miss perception. I've looked through skills a million times, but yeah, that's very crucial I'd say. Definitely dropping automatics and taking that instead. Not sure about the attention co-processor yet. I'm sitting at 0.6 Essence and worried about trying to get healed. As for the commlink advice that's really cool. I haven't looked too much into the commlink and matrix/program stuff yet, so I was just kind of looking at the list in the equipment section and running on what seemed feasible. Had no clue that I could have a custom OS. Again, guys, I seriously cannot thank you all enough. Keep it coming!

Also, what's the whole "*(Optimization -3, Ergonomic) Options" thing mean?

[Bushw4cker]

Awesome. I honestly don't know how I managed to miss perception. I've looked through skills a million times, but yeah, that's very crucial I'd say. Definitely dropping automatics and taking that instead. Not sure about the attention co-processor yet. I'm sitting at 0.6 Essence and worried about trying to get healed. As for the commlink advice that's really cool. I haven't looked too much into the commlink and matrix/program stuff yet, so I was just kind of looking at the list in the equipment section and running on what seemed feasible. Had no clue that I could have a custom OS. Again, guys, I seriously cannot thank you all enough. Keep it coming!

Also, what's the whole "*(Optimization -3, Ergonomic) Options" thing mean?

It's from Unwired, If a Program is Optimized it can run at a Higher rating then the Commlink's System rating would normally allow. Example if you have a Analyze Rating 6 program running on a Commlink with System rating 3, the program would normally only be able to run at Rating 3. That same Analyze program (Optimization-3) lets you run it 3 levels higher then normal so It could run at Rating 6 on a System 3 or Rating 5 on a System 2 Commlink. Ergonomic means program does not take up as much resources on your commlink so you can run more programs, without your response taking a hit. Both program options for Common use programs are pretty cheap, so they are worth it.

[Bushw4cker]

Also, if your character is not a Hacker/Rigger, your not going to need a Hot Sim modified commlink.

[Alucard]

Honestly, the only time I ever thought I'd need to hack might be to bypass security measures. Do something like run false security camera feed or something along those lines. Hacking isn't a necessity, since I think one of the other characters is occupying a hacker/face role. I only got the modification to run BTL chips, since my character is pretty addicted to them. That's an addiction/quality that's story driven and not mechanics crunching, so it has to stick. But if I don't need that to run BTL chips I could save the nuyen.

[HunterHerne]

Yeah, BTLs make use of the over-stimulation of Hot Sim, so it might be necessary.

[Oracle]

Your character seems to be a combat specialist. I would raise Body to increase survivability. And to allow for more armor without encumbrance.