[X] My Assistant

[CanRay]

Coming soon: Vending Machine Assassin Drones, Chose target set and contempt level ,drone self destructs upon termination of target .

Yeah, until one gets smart enough to keep the target alive while he goes freelance...

[hobgoblin]

Yep. If you've ever played a FPS with a reloading system, think the shotgun from it. Or, if you've played Fallout: New Vegas, think of any of the Lever-Action weapons or the Hunting Shotgun. Here's a description of a Winchester Lever-Action Rifle that includes reloading. That is an internal magazine.

Iirc, there are quick reload systems for rifles with internal magazines. Functions a bit like the speed loader of a revolver in that it holds a preset number of rounds that can then be rapidly inserted into the magazine as needed.

[DWC]

Iirc, there are quick reload systems for rifles with internal magazines. Functions a bit like the speed loader of a revolver in that it holds a preset number of rounds that can then be rapidly inserted into the magazine as needed.

That would be what a clip actually is.

[Gerzel]

Okay, but those areas are just a no-go.

There's the SOX containment zone for a nuclear desaster, the wildlands in england and ireland that are populated by bad mooded fairies, the bretagne which is populated by malignant fairies, and the tox spill zone in poland which is populated by mutants and toxics. and that forest in galicia that eats people.

This is all seriously beyond where a shotgun with birdshot will be helpful.

Not entirely. Spain and much of the German forest that regrew is re-habitable. the GeMiTo Sprawl lost a lot but is coming back slowly and the fogs have been receding in France.

[CanRay]

Iirc, there are quick reload systems for rifles with internal magazines. Functions a bit like the speed loader of a revolver in that it holds a preset number of rounds that can then be rapidly inserted into the magazine as needed.

You mean like this?

That only works with some internal magazine weapons, specifically ones designed for them, and usually of a military design. I doubt the "Civilian" weapon as described would use a clip. Clip clip clip. I enjoy saying it when it's right! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Here's a pistol version, however, for the infamous Broomhandle Mauser Pistol.

[hobgoblin]

Heh, a lot of old military rifles have made its ways into civilian hands as hunting rifles in Norway. Farm i grew up on held a old Krag-Jørgensen in the attic. Crazy beast! https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w...-J%C3%B8rgensen

and ah, the official name seems to be stripper clip: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Stripper_clip

[Sengir]

Also, it doesn't fit with most fluff at all.

Yep, the author's obvious preoccupation with "home defence" wouldn't be a problem if this was supposed to be an Ares Arms ad ("there are 349875 home invasions every day in the UCAS, buy our stuff to protect your loved ones"), but this is supposed to be written from the POV of a mercenary who seems to be at another frontline every time she posts something. I doubt there would be much use for a light pistol in the kind of invasions she worries about (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[hobgoblin]

From the writing style, it seems Picador included the weapons for completeness sake rather then any personal preference. And Perhaps also for informing fellow jackpoint users about what they may encounter alongside what they may find usable in their line of work.

[Mäx]

From the writing style, it seems Picador included the weapons for completeness sake rather then any personal preference. And Perhaps also for informing fellow jackpoint users about what they may encounter alongside what they may find usable in their line of work.

Yeah, this.
I personally really like the inclusion of this weapon type, just not the fact that there are 3 of them taking up 3 valuable pages.

[Fatum]

What I really dislike is that there is nothing special about them. But that's pretty much my problem with Shadowrun weapons - in my opinion, reading the description of a well-designed item should make you go "WOW WANT NOW". The monowhip would be a prime example of the stuff working like that.
As it is, Shadowrun, both in Arsenal, War! and Gun Heaven, has a bunch of weapons which are basically the same, with slight alterations to this and that stat, and this and that mods already made for you. I think Dark Heresy Core dealt with that right - "what we have here are generic versions, there's a million more models, each of those alters the stats a bit, feel free to write those up yourself". It's not all that bad, of course - say, there's the Executive Protector and the Clappistol in Arsenal, - but generally, nothing really catches the eye.

[Yerameyahu]

That is an issue, but the opposite problem is worse: the Alpha is the only AR with the magic RC, the White Knight ditto, etc. Very few offerings are distinct because of interesting reasons, instead of merely superior stats.

[CanRay]

Heh, a lot of old military rifles have made its ways into civilian hands as hunting rifles in Norway. Farm i grew up on held a old Krag-Jørgensen in the attic. Crazy beast! https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w...-J%C3%B8rgensen

.30-06 is a very common hunting round in the USA, and was originally designed as a military round for a Bolt-Action Rifle. It can be found in various old military models and civilian new rifles.

.303 British Service and "8mm Mauser" (Actually 7.92mm) are common in Canada, all being Military Rifles brought/sent home from WWI/WWII/Korea.

Even in Canada, the tradition of taking your service arm home isn't exactly frowned upon, until the assault rifle became standard issue at least. Something about another tradition of keeping fully-automatic weapons out of civilian hands. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

What I really dislike is that there is nothing special about them. But that's pretty much my problem with Shadowrun weapons - in my opinion, reading the description of a well-designed item should make you go "WOW WANT NOW". The monowhip would be a prime example of the stuff working like that.
As it is, Shadowrun, both in Arsenal, War! and Gun Heaven, has a bunch of weapons which are basically the same, with slight alterations to this and that stat, and this and that mods already made for you. I think Dark Heresy Core dealt with that right - "what we have here are generic versions, there's a million more models, each of those alters the stats a bit, feel free to write those up yourself". It's not all that bad, of course - say, there's the Executive Protector and the Clappistol in Arsenal, - but generally, nothing really catches the eye.

Generic statistics are both a boon and a fault. It's great in that it's easy to teach to people, and easy to "Figure out" firearms that aren't in the system.

On the downside, everything looks the same stats wise for the most part. At that point, it goes down to a case of personal style for a choice in firearm, and Shadowrun has been pretty decent in providing picture references for equipment at least. Not quite as good as I'd personally like, but I'm a hard, demanding person when it comes to stuff like that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) So, what we need now is a marketing point of view to sell a weapon, as Fatum describes, with Shadowtalk about what's real, what's fake, and what is pure balderdash.

I still want to know what causes the magic RC in the Ares Alpha, however... Yes yes yes, "It's special design" and all that, and I can think of a few ideas of how that works... 'Course, I'd also like calibers and the Easter Bunny, too.

[X-Kalibur]

Well, the book claims the magical 2 RC comes from a special chamber design. Which really makes me wonder... chamber designs, how do they work?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Well, the book claims the magical 2 RC comes from a special chamber design. Which really makes me wonder... chamber designs, how do they work?

Magically... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[CanRay]

Well, the book claims the magical 2 RC comes from a special chamber design. Which really makes me wonder... chamber designs, how do they work?

Depends on the firearm. But the Chamber is where the round is held before it's detonated and it turns from a "Not Shooty" bullet into a "Shooty" bullet. (Sorry, old joke about the media and their portrayal of firearms.).

There are a few design tricks with the action and layout of the firearm to help deal with "felt recoil" (As the laws of physics prevent actual recoil.), might be what the authors (Who aren't gun nuts, obviously) are referring to. Some of these are very subtle and may seem like magic, but are just engineering.

Which, now that I think of it, is just a different form of magic, isn't it?

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Generic statistics are both a boon and a fault. It's great in that it's easy to teach to people, and easy to "Figure out" firearms that aren't in the system.

On the downside, everything looks the same stats wise for the most part. At that point, it goes down to a case of personal style for a choice in firearm, and Shadowrun has been pretty decent in providing picture references for equipment at least. Not quite as good as I'd personally like, but I'm a hard, demanding person when it comes to stuff like that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) So, what we need now is a marketing point of view to sell a weapon, as Fatum describes, with Shadowtalk about what's real, what's fake, and what is pure balderdash.

And that's why I like the GURPS weapons system so much. The kind of ammo matters when you take into account weight (that shadowrun doesn't care), type of ammunition (that shadowrun doesn't care), ammount of ammunition, range (that is usually dependent on ammunition and barrel length) and price.

I know there are weapons that are far superior than others but shadowrun's weapons are so similar that usually the only difference they have are ammount of ammunition and price between the same kind of weapon.

[hermit]

The magical RC of the Ares Alpha is a leftover from 2nd/3rd where bullpup design was made of magical RC goodness.

[Mäx]

As it is, Shadowrun, both in Arsenal, War! and Gun Heaven, has a bunch of weapons which are basically the same, with slight alterations to this and that stat, and this and that mods already made for you.

Well i hate to break it to you, but thats pretty much how it is in the real world too, doesn't really top people shouting "Do want" when they see some new(to them atleast) gun (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[CanRay]

The magical RC of the Ares Alpha is a leftover from 2nd/3rd where bullpup design was made of magical RC goodness.

OK, that makes sense.

Well i hate to break it to you, but thats pretty much how it is in the real world too, doesn't really top people shouting "Do want" when they see some new(to them atleast) gun (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

What's the difference between a Para-Ordinance P14-45 and a Glock 21? Weight, a little bit of barrel length, and a single round of .45 ACP.

Oh, and one is made in Canada and the other in Austria. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

I agree: it's realistic, it's easier for balance, and it's nice to have minor options. Games where each weapon has a serious niche are called Halo.

[CanRay]

I agree: it's realistic, it's easier for balance, and it's nice to have minor options. Games where each weapon has a serious niche are called Halo.

And yet the Shotgun is still king.

Shotgun.

...

I said Shotgun, damnit!

[hobgoblin]

Or one can go to the Blue Planet extreme and have exact one gun pr category (except for the GEO marshals sidearm, but that is a different story).

[Yerameyahu]

SR4 *would* be the same game if the only guns were 'Light Pistol', 'SMG', etc. It'd be less stylish, but game balance and everything would be 99% the same. I assume this is by design, with the truly unique options (collapsible pistol, ceramic pistol, suitcase SMG) there for much more specific uses. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Sengir]

And Perhaps also for informing fellow jackpoint users about what they may encounter alongside what they may find usable in their line of work.

Picador is a mercenary, the resident expert on African hellholes, and her late spouse used to voice his contempt about what shadowrunners do and how they do it ("with your attitude, it's no wonder Johnsons consider you expendable and screw you over"). So if anything, ordinary runners would have to tell her about weapons an extraction target might carry, not the other way round.

From the more mechanical side of things, my main impression was "what should I use this for?". Guns a civilian might carry? That's essentially what the Holdout category is for, several existing Light Pistols (that Israeli thing comes to mind) would also do fine. Guerrilla gang from Craplapistan? Classics like the G3 or FAL would be better for that than old US Army equipment.

What I do like, though, is the presentation and the drawings. The filtered RL photos are not my taste, but each to his own...and better those than drawings like in Parazoology (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Lastly, as it has become all too common with the new PDF products, even a casual glance showed the first obvious blunder: Guns with all kinds of electronic gizmos, but no smartgun system? Oh please...

Overall verdict: I won't buy the book (yes, I downloaded the extra-large preview - I like leafing through a book before buying). And I can't really recommend it to anyone else. Not because it's bad, but because I simply fail to see a place for these guns.

PS: Nevertheless, there is one problem with the layout: The black lines at cap- and baseline look really bad if something extends above or below those lines...as the brackets unfortunately do.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

SR4 *would* be the same game if the only guns were 'Light Pistol', 'SMG', etc. It'd be less stylish, but game balance and everything would be 99% the same. I assume this is by design, with the truly unique options (collapsible pistol, ceramic pistol, suitcase SMG) there for much more specific uses. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

We already do this with vehicles (we give one picture and a name and a list of similar models), we could do the same with weapons. This would give economy of space and at the same time we could give more characteristics for weapons like: 7.62mm assault rifle, 5.56mm assault rifle, etc, etc, etc.