[X] My Assistant

[BishopMcQ]

HunterHerne read it the way I would as a GM. The Physical spell, stays on the body and the Astral (Mana based) spell goes with the astral form.

Personally, as a character, if I was going to project I'd swap out Armor for Physical Barrier, since that would help keep people away from body to keep it from becoming a corpse.

[HunterHerne]

HunterHerne read it the way I would as a GM. The Physical spell, stays on the body and the Astral (Mana based) spell goes with the astral form.

Personally, as a character, if I was going to project I'd swap out Armor for Physical Barrier, since that would help keep people away from body to keep it from becoming a corpse.

And possibly provide a little boost for the rest of your team (or at least the mostly non-combatants).

[Udoshi]

regarding the foci armor question, its actually possible to do under the rules, but it involves Weapon Foci.

From the FAQ:
Q: If you turn a weapon into a focus, but not a weapon focus, can I attack astral forms with it?
A: Under the current rules, only weapon foci may specifically be used in astral combat. This question will be answered fully in an upcoming sourcebook.

Q: If you turn a weapon into a focus, but not a weapon focus, does it still do damage to creatures with Immunity to Normal Weapons?
A: No. It is magic, but it is not a magic weapon. Most spirits don’t have Immunity to Normal Weapons unless they’re materialized or possessing a vessel, but the ability to circumvent Immunity to Normal Weapons is one of the advantages of weapon foci.
note, however, this is for spellcasting focus. Weapon foci, however, do work.

Q: If my Spellcasting Focus is an armored vest or shield, do I get an armor bonus against attacks from the astral?
A: No. The telesma of the focus might provide armor, but not mystic armor such as that provided by the Mystic Armor adept power, the Mystic Armor critter power, or the Astral Armor spell.
Note that, again, this is for Spellcasting focus

When used in physical combat, weapon foci grant the character a dice pool modifier to melee attacks equal to their force. The character still relies on her physical attributes and skills in combat.; the weapon focus merely makes her more effective. This also applies to astrally percieving characters fighting an opponent on an astral plane. Weapon foci are effective against astral forms and continue to add their Force in dice against such enemies.
An astrally projecting character takes her weapon focus with her to the astral plane. Making an attack with a weapon focus in astral space relies on the characterse astral combat +w illpower dice pookm but this dice pool is increased by the force of the weapon focus. The damage of the weapon is the same on the astral plane as it is in the physical world.

When activated, foci have an astral form and will accompany an astrally projecting magician to which they are bound.

So if you put all this together, I believe a Weapon focus (not a spellcasting, not a sustaining, it has to be a Weapon) focus as a suit of armor will work against astral attacks.
Weapon foci are special, in that they actually have a tangible astral form, more so than other foci, it seems, and you can explicitly bring copies of them along when you project.

The downside is that you lose out on the bonus dice for your foci, because you're probably not bashing people with your leather jacket/breastplate/what have you.
The upside is, you only need a force 1 foci to claim the benefits.

So, to sum up, armor foci don't exist, but weapon foci can still accomplish the same, or very similiar, thing.

[Yerameyahu]

That doesn't make sense. All active foci have an astral form, there's nothing special about weapon foci… except that they alone can be used as astral weapons. Nothing to do with armor.

[Udoshi]

That doesn't make sense. All active foci have an astral form, there's nothing special about weapon foci… except that they alone can be used as astral weapons. Nothing to do with armor.

No, it doesn't, because the FAQ is, frankly, a POS - but apparently astrally active foci can't be used to harm spirits(bypass itnw), because non-weapon foci aren't astral enough. Or something. For the record, I can agree it doesn't make sense.

Anyway, the specific bit of relevant rules text that weapon foci have is this bit:

This also applies to astrally percieving characters fighting an opponent on an astral plane. Weapon foci are effective against astral forms and continue to add their Force in dice against such enemies.

Which other foci do not have. The bit about force is less important than the basic form being useful against astral forms, where other types of foci aren't.

[BishopMcQ]

Udoshi--Maybe I'm being a little thick (haven't eaten yet), but I don't see the support for the jump from "does the same damage" to "provides the same armor benefits" in the quotes you gave above. I could see the argument that the appearance of the armor comes with you, as the astral form of focus which is woven into the armor. The third question you listed from the FAQ seems to say that it doesn't provide any armor.

I agree that the FAQ could have been worded better. I believe the intent of "not astral enough" (as you phrased it) was to avoid producing new rules for sustaining foci rings being used as brass knuckles on the astral and the like. It accompanies the argument of FAB in a capsule round etc.

[Udoshi]

Udoshi--Maybe I'm being a little thick (haven't eaten yet), but I don't see the support for the jump from "does the same damage" to "provides the same armor benefits" in the quotes you gave above. I could see the argument that the appearance of the armor comes with you, as the astral form of focus which is woven into the armor. The third question you listed from the FAQ seems to say that it doesn't provide any armor.

You're pretty much right.

However, the third FAQ is for Spellcasting foci. I would agree that they were trying to limit the introduction of new rules, but also to emphasize that you need Weapon Foci to fight with. (i kind of don't agree with this, because it doesn't make sense. astral is astral, why is another foci not good enough now?)

While the rules don't support it explicitly, if its magical enough to block, parry, and beat someone with, it should be magical enough to take a blow or two.

[Yerameyahu]

I do see where you're coming from, but I think your reasoning is not necessarily the only one. My view is that weapon foci are uniquely, magically 'offensive', not uniquely 'astral tangible'. Their ability to strike and parry is an essential weapon-ness, not an issue of 'physicality'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[pbangarth]

So, if a weapon focus designed as armor were to be used to parry an astral attack, would it get the Force in bonus dice for the parry? And therefore act sort of like an armor focus, in the sense that it adds dice to a defensive move?

[Yerameyahu]

AFAIK, you can parry with a weapon focus. That's part of weapon-ness. I reserve judgement on the concept of 'weapon focus designed as armor', because I suspect that it makes no sense. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

The goal is something that gives more damage resistance dice, right?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

The goal is something that gives more damage resistance dice, right?

Which a Sustaining Focus (or Quickening) and an Astral Armor spell does already, and quite nicely. No fiddling with the Rules whatsoever. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Fortinbras]

So, if a weapon focus designed as armor were to be used to parry an astral attack, would it get the Force in bonus dice for the parry? And therefore act sort of like an armor focus, in the sense that it adds dice to a defensive move?

Only in the same way any other weapon focus would. Carrying a Weapon Focus knife will provide the same Parry bonus are wearing a Weapon Focus jacket.
Weapon focus only add dice to an attack roll, they don't have any astral armor to speak of.

EDIT: SR4a says that Weapon focus only add to melee attacks, not to parry.

[Yerameyahu]

Interesting. Thanks for checking that, Fortinbras. Not that parrying is armor anyway. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Yeah, Tymeaus. Perfect solution already.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Interesting. Thanks for checking that, Fortinbras. Not that parrying is armor anyway. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Yeah, Tymeaus. Perfect solution already.

Indeed... I am a bit confused as to why there is this quest for Armor Foci... *shrug* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[pbangarth]

Indeed... I am a bit confused as to why there is this quest for Armor Foci... *shrug* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Well, a focus doesn't require a metamagic to enable it, for one thing. Quickening does.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Well, a focus doesn't require a metamagic to enable it, for one thing. Quickening does.

So... Use a Sustaining Focus and the Astral Armor Spell... These already exist... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Deja Vu... I Think that I have heard that somewhere before... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[BishopMcQ]

Tymaeaus--are you espousing a tradition of literacy and long-term memory? HERESY! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) Admittedly one of the options I put forth supported your plan, I just tossed out others for people to play with..

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Tymaeaus--are you espousing a tradition of literacy and long-term memory? HERESY! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) Admittedly one of the options I put forth supported your plan, I just tossed out others for people to play with..

Literacy and improvements in Long-Term Memory would be a step up for the world, BishopMcQ, but alas, I hold no hope for the future. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

No worries... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Fortinbras]

Indeed... I am a bit confused as to why there is this quest for Armor Foci... *shrug* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

The vain hope is that one can buy a level 1 weapon focus on an armor jacket and get 8 points of astral armor for cheap.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

The vain hope is that one can buy a level 1 weapon focus on an armor jacket and get 8 points of astral armor for cheap.

A Vain Hope Indeed... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)