[X] My Assistant

[MJBurrage]

Archiving material that has been freely available on the web is a legal grey area based on fair use, etc. This is what lets the Internet Archive function. As far as I can determine, everything AH posted prior to 2010 is there.

What about when the copyright holder (Ancient History in this case) deliberately removes the material? Can we legally continue to distribute it if we know the author withdrew it, or is it legally a bell that even the author cannot un-ring?

[CanRay]

Let's throw some more confusion on that fire: Which laws matter? The ones where the author lives? The ones where the server is based? The ones where the user is based?

[Redjack]

Can't they be hosted at Dumpshock? Like all the other long-dead but worthy pages?

It would be great if the full site could be hosted on Dumpshock. The knowledge must be preserved for the coming generations (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

These were hosted by Dumpshock and removed at that author's request.

Archiving material that has been freely available on the web is a legal grey area based on fair use, etc. This is what lets the Internet Archive function. As far as I can determine, everything AH posted prior to 2010 is there.

What about when the copyright holder (Ancient History in this case) deliberately removes the material? Can we legally continue to distribute it if we know the author withdrew it, or is it legally a bell that even the author cannot un-ring?

Thanks to the Mickey Mouse law (ergo Copyright laws bought and paid for by lobbyists for Disney) Copyright is crazy long and not very grey.

As a general rule, for works created after January 1, 1978, copyright protection lasts for the life of the author plus an additional 70 years. For an anonymous work, a pseudonymous work, or a work made for hire, the copyright endures for a term of 95 years from the year of its first publication or a term of 120 years from the year of its creation, whichever expires first.

[MJBurrage]

There is no doubt that copyright belongs to Ancient History until 70 years after his death. Commercialization would be complicated by derivative copyright issues due to the use of the Shadowrun IP.

However if that always meant no use without express permission, than the Internet Archive could not exist legally.

So there is some fair use exemption for materials that were made available for free by their copyright holder.

How is that fair use effected by deliberate withdrawal of the original site?

[Tiralee]

Well....Fuck.



"If only" is the most hateful and soulless phrase in human language, but yeah, kicking myself that I didn't grab everything wholesale (yes, for personal use and reference, no way would I rip a fellow's work without proper compensation). The annotated works helped my players and myself get through soo much lore, enough that they could make connection that were half-way supported by the canon.


-Tir.

[Redjack]

How is that fair use effected by deliberate withdrawal of the original site?

My only real points are that (1) it was removed at AH's request and (2) any additional sharing facilitated from Dumpshock would be interpreted by Dumpshock's staff as a violation of AH's copyright... unless he were to post an open license to share or the like. ergo: My interpretation of being asked to remove content is equal to removal of copyright.

[KCKitsune]

I think I have all of Ancient's files downloaded. I just checked properties of the folder and it was 43 files and 5.22 MB in size. I can zip up what I have and send it to you. Just give me a day or two to get send it out. If you're interested then PM me with your email address.

[MJBurrage]

My only real points are that (1) it was removed at AH's request and (2) any additional sharing facilitated from Dumpshock would be interpreted by Dumpshock's staff as a violation of AH's copyright... unless he were to post an open license to share or the like. ergo: My interpretation of being asked to remove content is equal to removal of copyright.

I was not suggesting that Dumpshock host the material without AH's consent.

I was asking if anyone knew the actual legalities of someone else hosting or releasing the material that is not already in the Internet Archive.

I wouldn't do it, since I personally feel it would go against his newly implied intent. But what about similar cases, where the information just vanishes without public explanation?

[Redjack]

I wasn't inferring anything of anyone, rather trying to convey that we were attempting to respect AH's wishes. The failing of written communication is the subtly of expression and gesture.

The copyright quote was peripheral. Personally, I think copyright laws have become ludicrous to the point of insanity. In time, Project Gutenberg will have nothing to do... and lets not even start on intellectual property law or the sheer stupidity known as software patents.

[Ancient History]

Hoka-hey, Shadowkids. Uncle Ancient here.

The Ancient Files has served it's time...and probably a while past that. I did not update it much after I became a freelancer, and since my divorce from Shadowrun, have no will to try. So the files were aging, out of date, neglected...and riddled with the errors and bad jokes of 5+ years of hand-coding and self-editing. There are enough dinosaurs crowding the web that no-one needs one more orphaned site, losing relevance with each PDF release. Best to have a clean end to things.

For those that absolutely need the site - though I can scarce imagine why - there's a complete archive of it up on rapidshare.

https://rapidshare.com/files/3503920800/ancientfiles.tgz

As for me, I'll see y'all on http://the-unpublishable.com

[Redjack]

Thanks for clearing that up!

[Neurosis]

A sad day for Shadowrun. The Ancient Files have always been my easy go to reference source for SR and ED. Now I will have to go back to thumbing through piles of books.

I so, so, so, so, agree. This is a sad day for Shadowrun.

[Stahlseele]

Hoka-hey, Shadowkids. Uncle Ancient here.

The Ancient Files has served it's time...and probably a while past that. I did not update it much after I became a freelancer, and since my divorce from Shadowrun, have no will to try. So the files were aging, out of date, neglected...and riddled with the errors and bad jokes of 5+ years of hand-coding and self-editing. There are enough dinosaurs crowding the web that no-one needs one more orphaned site, losing relevance with each PDF release. Best to have a clean end to things.

For those that absolutely need the site - though I can scarce imagine why - there's a complete archive of it up on rapidshare.

https://rapidshare.com/files/3503920800/ancientfiles.tgz

As for me, I'll see y'all on http://the-unpublishable.com

It's not really about needing.
It's about wanting funny stuff that's relevant to our interests!
Also, about convenience, if you have something like these files and don't need to cross reference several books <.<

[KCKitsune]

I wonder how many of the files were missing from my archive.

Also, my time as an archivist is sadly over. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Wakshaani]

I understand, AH, but it makes me sad inside. It's like when Captain Kangaroo went off the air. It just won't be the same without the files up and running.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

We'll try to carry on, and make you proud of what the future holds.

*salutes*

[Sengir]

For those that absolutely need the site - though I can scarce imagine why

Because information on the old books remains perfectly valid today, and those classic books are a fascinating read. Maybe one or two of your speculations have been superseded if a plot was revisited, but the summaries and literature references can't really age (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[otakusensei]

My commlink still says it's 2072. I was going to update it, but the remote node has been compromised by some unscrupulous individuals bent on filling my AR with garbage data.

[longbowrocks]

To download Zero Sum Gain:

1. Go to hermits link.
2. Button in upper right labelled "Save in Google Docs". Click it.
3. Go to your google account.
4. See the "Gmail" tab in the extreme upper left corner of the page? "Documents" is two tabs to the right of that. Click "Documents".
5. Mouse over "ZeroSumGain.pdf". "Actions" appears to the right of the name. Click "Actions"->"Dowload"
6. ???
7. Profit.

I hope this was helpful.

[Stahlseele]

It was, but i had already simply emailed me the document to my outlook account and saved it from there.
And then i downloaded the Ancient History archive from rapidshit too ^^

[Ascalaphus]

To download Zero Sum Gain:

1. Go to hermits link.
2. Button in upper right labelled "Save in Google Docs". Click it.
3. Go to your google account.
4. See the "Gmail" tab in the extreme upper left corner of the page? "Documents" is two tabs to the right of that. Click "Documents".
5. Mouse over "ZeroSumGain.pdf". "Actions" appears to the right of the name. Click "Actions"->"Dowload"
6. ???
7. Profit.

I hope this was helpful.

I'm a bit confused about the penultimate step, but I seem to've got it right (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Prime Mover]

Thanks for the file share.

I think you underestimate the value of the info you shared. The cross reference correlations alone are worth their weight in gold.

But then maybe I'm just an old school SR junkie. Heck I still look over the http://www.intercom.net/user/logan1/bkk.htm once inawhile.

[CanRay]

I think you underestimate the value of the info you shared. The cross reference correlations alone are worth their weight in gold.

Um, they weigh in at electrons... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Um, they weigh in at electrons... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Ummm... But isn't Gold made up of Electrons (and Protons and Neutrons)? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Ummm... But isn't Gold made up of Electrons (and Protons and Neutrons)? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Yeah, but those are measured in moles.
Now, if you say they worth their amount of electrons in mole, then yeah, it could be a lot of money.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Yeah, but those are measured in moles.
Now, if you say they worth their amount of electrons in mole, then yeah, it could be a lot of money.

Heh... Interesting indeed... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)