[X] My Assistant

[redwulf25]

What I am saying is, these people believe that they were spiritually invested in some way, shape, or form, and that this individual person believes that this special spirit was stolen from him.

Either you've been talking to some unusual 'kin or you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what you've heard. For the most part the belief is more a matter of cross species reincarnation. Nothing about having a special spirit "stolen" from them. Hell, I like it here. I'm pretty sure it's a far better place than whatever's left of there. And there didn't have electricity or the flush toilet.

[CanRay]

"OH MY $DEITY I'M A TOMATO!!!"

[Rubic]

"OH MY $DEITY I'M A TOMATO!!!"

How are you holding up, because I'M A POTATO!!

[Hagga]

The government and corporations really do have the greater good of all in mind. It's just some occasional bad apples who try to off or betray the Runner. He should be wide eyued, childish and earnest in his belief.

[Draco18s]

Either you've been talking to some unusual 'kin or you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what you've heard. For the most part the belief is more a matter of cross species reincarnation. Nothing about having a special spirit "stolen" from them. Hell, I like it here. I'm pretty sure it's a far better place than whatever's left of there. And there didn't have electricity or the flush toilet.

This.

Also, I've met some who remember their own deaths. Like I said, being flung into a hillside isn't much fun.

[Ascalaphus]

Dunkelzahn is alive/dead/watching over us/truly cares.

Nonlethal weapons are really safe, and you couldn't possibly know that guy had a rare heart/skull condition.

If you haven't done anything wrong, you don't have to be afraid of the cops.

You've got magical talent, it just hasn't awakened yet, but you should keep collecting magical knick-knacks, because soon you will show them all!

SoyBurgers are really made from soy.

[Rubic]

This.

Also, I've met some who remember their own deaths. Like I said, being flung into a hillside isn't much fun.

Actually, I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. The thread is about delusions. I listed a possible delusion. That delusion had several parts to it: 1) That a mundane believed he was an Otherkin to start with; 2) That part of his soul the part that would make him an Otherkin, was stolen; 3) that somebody or something out there HAD this part of his soul.

Now, are you going to argue that any one of those points is IMPOSSIBLE in shadowrun, considering how open the fluff leaves things? If so, how does that CHANGE the fact that this scenario is, in fact, intended to be a delusion of a single person?

[Draco18s]

Actually, I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. The thread is about delusions. I listed a possible delusion. That delusion had several parts to it: 1) That a mundane believed he was an Otherkin to start with; 2) That part of his soul the part that would make him an Otherkin, was stolen; 3) that somebody or something out there HAD this part of his soul.

In any case, there's nothing wrong with a delusion of this sort, I'm just trying to straiten out your perception of what an Otherkin believes and what they actually believe.

[Rubic]

I get the feeling that you're purposely misidentifying what I'm saying to contradict me. I'm not doubting Otherkin as real or right, either in game or out. I'm not misidentifying what they are. I spelled out the delusion, and the core IS to NOT being anything other than spiritually mundane, to believe OTHERWISE, and to believe PART of the soul has been stolen. The final part is the meat of the drama and conflict brought on by the delusion, and likely a result of the first two.

Think of it another way, as well. Somebody believes that they were a Technomancer, but they lack resonance and, when faced with their lack of ability, insist that somebody has stolen their resonance. Same basic scenario as what I listed before, but rather than fluff, it's somebody claiming to have formerly possessed something with gameplay rules.

Are you going to complain, now, that I don't know what technomancers really are and that the rules clearly define technomancer burnout, even though it's not important to the concept?

[Draco18s]

In any case, there's nothing wrong with a delusion of this sort

If you want to go with the "stolen soul" thing, you can. I have nothing wrong with it, I just object to the pairing with Otherkinism, as if they're one and the same, as you keep implying. As if a completely normal person who says that their soul has been stolen somehow doesn't qualify as a delusion, but that they need to be special in order for it to qualify.

[KarmaInferno]

We're not really Shadowrunners. We're figments of a shared illusion generated by a bunch of people sitting around a table rolling dice.




-k

[Draco18s]

We're not really Shadowrunners. We're figments of a shared illusion generated by a bunch of people sitting around a table rolling dice.

I've met a player who had a character that thought that once, I think.

[Rubic]

If you want to go with the "stolen soul" thing, you can. I have nothing wrong with it, I just object to the pairing with Otherkinism, as if they're one and the same, as you keep implying. As if a completely normal person who says that their soul has been stolen somehow doesn't qualify as a delusion, but that they need to be special in order for it to qualify.

Simply saying stolen soul doesn't really seem as dramatic as, say, somebody with a special reason to cherish their soul above and beyond. WHY was THEIR soul stolen? Why are/were they special? What more do they feel they had to lose? Imminence, urgency, a higher sense of loss... like a Paladin who has fallen from grace, or a devotee who has lost their connection to their worshipped deity, or like a decker/hacker that's been cast into a world bereft of technology.

Do you take offense at the idea of an Otherkin losing something as vitally important to themselves and their identity as somebody might towards a Christian who feels suddenly and completely bereft of Jesus and God? As much as you seem offended, I assure you that I have been giving the concept due weight on my side. A powerful Delusion does not have to fit into anybody's sense of cuddly, of veracity, fact, reason, or logic. I don't consider Otherkinism a delusion, especially (though not exclusively) considering that reincarnation and spiritual immortality are both fundaments of my religious and spiritual beliefs.

I WOULD, however, consider it possible that somebody who was delusional, mundane, and verifiably NOT an Otherkin to believe that they were, with incorrect details of it, and to potentially go to excessive lengths to remedy their perceived loss.

[Draco18s]

Simply saying stolen soul doesn't really seem as dramatic as, say, somebody with a special reason to cherish their soul above and beyond. WHY was THEIR soul stolen? Why are/were they special? What more do they feel they had to lose? Imminence, urgency, a higher sense of loss... like a Paladin who has fallen from grace, or a devotee who has lost their connection to their worshipped deity, or like a decker/hacker that's been cast into a world bereft of technology.

There are people--today, right now--who don't want their picture taken because they believe that it steals a piece of their soul. And they object to it quite a bit. You don't have to be special to feel that your soul has been unrightly taken. It's your soul. Otherkinism, magic, technomancy, specialness not required.

Do you take offense at the idea of an Otherkin losing something as vitally important to themselves and their identity as somebody might towards a Christian who feels suddenly and completely bereft of Jesus and God?

I don't take offense to the idea, I took offence at an implied connection between the two. My initial objects were due to the phrasing that you had used implied a connection between Otherkinism and soul stealing (as if the former believed the latter in all cases).

A powerful Delusion does not have to fit into anybody's sense of cuddly, of veracity, fact, reason, or logic. I don't consider Otherkinism a delusion, especially (though not exclusively) considering that reincarnation and spiritual immortality are both fundaments of my religious and spiritual beliefs.

A delusion, as a negative quality, doesn't need to be powerful. Just in conflict with normal function within society.

For instance, a character who has a delusion that wearing two socks of the same color brings bad luck who just doesn't wear matching socks isn't really suffering, thus the quality wouldn't apply. On the other hand, a character who insists that their team also not wear matching socks (and goes out of their way to check and remedy the problem) would.

This isn't a powerful delusion, not in the slightest. It is, however, one that does (or doesn't) get in the way of social norms.

[CanRay]

I've met a player who had a character that thought that once, I think.

I sometimes wonder why my player won't roll better. Bastard.

[redwulf25]

I sometimes wonder why my player won't roll better. Bastard.

Sorry, I swapped out his dice for loaded dice rigged to roll poorly because he was playing a real asshole in another game I was in. Unfortunately I can't change the dice back because I lost track of your player.

[Neowulf]

Example from my abnormal psych class in college:
One of the last remaining members of an angelic bloodline, constantly hunted by minions of satan who will stop at nothing to rape her and therefor corrupt the bloodline. The demons can change their shape to look perfectly human except for their feet, which always remain cloven hooves. They cover their hooves with shoes, but you can see through the disguise because the hooves wear down the heel of the shoe very quickly. Anyone with the heels of their shoes worn down is a demon in disguise, and must be killed quickly for they are abominations and not human.



Prof also gave us a lovely dissociative identity disorder patient story, a little old lady who was physically allergic to smoke in one personality, and a chain smoking biker in another. Perfect separation between the two, the biker never got sick and the little old lady never suffered from withdrawal.

[Draco18s]

Prof also gave us a lovely dissociative identity disorder patient story, a little old lady who was physically allergic to smoke in one personality, and a chain smoking biker in another. Perfect separation between the two, the biker never got sick and the little old lady never suffered from withdrawal.

Dissociative identity disorder is very strange sometimes.

[CanRay]

Example from my abnormal psych class in college:

Believing they're a student in an abnormal psych class? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Bushw4cker]

Example from my abnormal psych class in college:
One of the last remaining members of an angelic bloodline, constantly hunted by minions of satan who will stop at nothing to rape her and therefor corrupt the bloodline. The demons can change their shape to look perfectly human except for their feet, which always remain cloven hooves. They cover their hooves with shoes, but you can see through the disguise because the hooves wear down the heel of the shoe very quickly. Anyone with the heels of their shoes worn down is a demon in disguise, and must be killed quickly for they are abominations and not human.



Prof also gave us a lovely dissociative identity disorder patient story, a little old lady who was physically allergic to smoke in one personality, and a chain smoking biker in another. Perfect separation between the two, the biker never got sick and the little old lady never suffered from withdrawal.

Nice post, any more to share?

[Neowulf]

If I could find my noted from the class I could probably remember the others, though it has been over 10 years.

Though I do remember an example he gave of self inflicted injuries reinforcing a delusion.
The prof started rubbing his forearms with his hands while talking about the differences between perception and reality, like a surgeon slowly scrubbing up. After a bit he said "like say a person believes there are worms crawling under his skin, so he rubs his forearms, trying to force the worms out. After a bit the constant rubbing will damage the skin, causing it to peel off in strips. *pick off an imaginary strip of flesh* See, a worm. I told you they were crawling in my skin, and I caught one. There's another, and another..."


I wish I had gone to a school with a larger psych section, the human mind is so interesting when it gets a couple neurons crossed.

[Bushw4cker]

If I could find my noted from the class I could probably remember the others, though it has been over 10 years.

Though I do remember an example he gave of self inflicted injuries reinforcing a delusion.
The prof started rubbing his forearms with his hands while talking about the differences between perception and reality, like a surgeon slowly scrubbing up. After a bit he said "like say a person believes there are worms crawling under his skin, so he rubs his forearms, trying to force the worms out. After a bit the constant rubbing will damage the skin, causing it to peel off in strips. *pick off an imaginary strip of flesh* See, a worm. I told you they were crawling in my skin, and I caught one. There's another, and another..."


I wish I had gone to a school with a larger psych section, the human mind is so interesting when it gets a couple neurons crossed.

In Shadowrun replace worms with nanobots

[Neowulf]

"*constantly scratching arms* %MAJOR_CORP% injected me with nanites programmed to slowly destroy my arms and force me to buy their cyberarms loaded with spy programs for them! I can feel them working, under my skin. Look, see? My arms are bleeding and my skin is falling off already!"

[X-Kalibur]

Believing they're a student in an abnormal psych class? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

I think he missed the joke.

[CanRay]

Wasn't that good of a joke.