[X] My Assistant

[Warlordtheft]

The best solution for a game involving the 25mm or 28mm minitures I find is to go with 1"=2 meters. Now that you have that scale you can map out. Honestly I'd just divide the movement by 3 or the IP of the highest number of IP's in play should this become an issue. 9 times out of 10 though, this won't be an issue as the 1 IP guy is too busy dodging bullets to do much else (if they are smart).

Not that RAW is screwy in this regard (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif) ---as in the case of the 1IP human guy charging 25 meter to the 3 IP guy (troll street sam standing still). The 1 IP guy goes second (normally) and would get mowed down. On the off chance he spends edge or otherwise goes first he can run his full distance, engage in melee. But by raw on the second IP is not engaged in melee (IIRC) as the distance covered by the 1IP guy has only covered 2/3rds the distance (assuming he needed to run the full distance of 25 meters) and would get shout at and blown away.

OH..idea-moves involving a charge or engagement of the enemy result in the attacker delaying their attack until just before the targets last IP of the round unless they both have the same number of IPs-or the distance covered is equal to or less than attackers movement in terms of 1IP of the defenders. This works cause you divide the PC's or NPC's movement by the number of IP's they have.

Example 1:Ron the sec guard charges tammy the troll street same. Ron's charge move is 25m he has 1 IP< and spends edge to go first. Tammy has 3IP. Ron's charges the full 25 meters to tammy. Due to this house rule, Ron's attack is delayed until the 3IP. Tammy mows down Ron while he is at 8meters away on the first IP.

Example 2:Bob the sec guard charges tammy the troll street same. Bob's move is 25m he has 1 IP< and spends edge to go first. Tammy has 3IP.
Bobs only needs to cover 6 meter to get to Tammy. Due to the fact that 6 meters is less than 25(Bobs Speed)/3(Tammy's IP)=~8 meters, Bob's attack is not delayed and may immediately attack.


As you can see from the example here-while it is possible for it to become an issue, the scenario is a rare one indeed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

If you are under 10m distance from somebody, chances are you will be there before a gun can be drawn/aimed your way . .

7 Meters is the generally accepted Distance (the 21 Foot Rule)... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[HunterHerne]

7 Meters is the generally accepted Distance (the 21 Foot Rule)... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

But that is in real life, where "most" people could never get what would effectively be multiple IPs.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

But that is in real life, where "most" people could never get what would effectively be multiple IPs.

This is true... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Stahlseele]

Fast Guy gets in his 3IP exactly as far as Slow Guy does in terms of Movement.
Fast Guy can, on the other Hand, act 3 times in the same time Slow Guy can.
Bad Guy can only shoot at slow guy, if bad guy goes before slow guy.
Bad Guy can only shoot at fast guy, if bad guy goes before fast guy.
Or am i misunderstanding something here?

[Mäx]

Ok. This makes some sense, but seems to result in an even stranger paradox. It means that SlowGuy can get shot at as he crosses a 10m open area if FastGuy is present, because he'll be in the open in BadGuy's turn in IP 1 due to FastGuy's presence forcing 2 IPs. But if SlowGuy smashed FastGuy over the head and knocked him out to make him non-participant in the combat, there would be only one IP, and SlowGuy could move his full 10m in one action, giving BadGuy no chance to fire at him.

You're fundamentally misunderstanding how the system works here, the number of IP:s doesn't matter at all.
If your moving your full allowance from cover to cover, then the bad guy can shoot you nomatter how many IP:S are involved, as your movement always takes 3 seconds(the length of one combat turn) and the bad guy is acting during those same 3 seconds, so your exposed to his fire while moving.

[sabs]

What if I'm moving less than my combat speed?

[Warlordtheft]

What if I'm moving less than my combat speed?

Depends....as stated in my solution the 1 IP guy may get there fast enough if he is close enough. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[hyphz]

Does the example in the Runner's Toolkit explain any of this sort of thing? Or does it at least describe how to duck the issues in front of players?

[Yerameyahu]

Yes. There are circumstances (short distances) where you can legitimately 'get there' in 1 IP. Typically, this would be (Movement rate)/4, though it varies slightly if there are only 3 IPs in the Turn, etc.

What no one can do is 'spring attack'; you can't move 10m, melee, move 10m… without others having a *chance* to act. Because it is impossible, we needn't fret about it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Now, you can pull off things similar to this if you have extra IPs, because you could wait until slower people wasted their actions. Still, they had the possibility of shooting you, if they'd chosen to.

hyphz, I really don't think this should be a big problem for your group. Explain to them that, no, it doesn't work, because movement rate is per Turn (not IP); if they tried it, they would be exposed to attack. The basic rule is 'if it seems too good to be true, it's not!'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Stahlseele]

What if I'm moving less than my combat speed?

Then you are not chuck norris.

[sabs]

Then you are not chuck norris.

that doesn't make any sense.

My full round speed is 20M
I want to move 5M to cover, but according to you, that's going to take me the full 3 seconds..

why? and what does that have to do with Chuck Norris.

[Mäx]

My full round speed is 20M
I want to move 5M to cover, but according to you, that's going to take me the full 3 seconds..

No it will take you exactly 0,75 seconds, for witch time you will be vulnerable to incoming fire.

[Yerameyahu]

It is called a 'joke'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Because that's a situation where precision matters, your GM would use Rate/IPs (4), so you could indeed move 5m in that IP. Technically, anyone aiming at you during that IP still has the chance to shoot you, though (you're still in the open during the whole IP). If the cover were 20m away, people could shoot you during all 4 IPs.

[Stahlseele]

that doesn't make any sense.

and what does that have to do with Chuck Norris.

Chuck Norris has only 2 Speeds: Walk and Kill.

[sabs]

Chuck Norris is a tool (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Stahlseele]

It is called a 'joke'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Because that's a situation where precision matters, your GM would use Rate/IPs (4), so you could indeed move 5m in that IP. Technically, anyone aiming at you during that IP still has the chance to shoot you, though (you're still in the open during the whole IP). If the cover were 20m away, people could shoot you during all 4 IPs.

Uhm . . only if the OTHER people have 4IP's right?
Else they get to go once, maybe twice and then you are scot free, right?

[Yerameyahu]

Yes, obviously. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It's too much trouble to keep repeating (divide by N:N=max IPs of anyone in the combat).

[hyphz]

Yes. There are circumstances (short distances) where you can legitimately 'get there' in 1 IP. Typically, this would be (Movement rate)/4, though it varies slightly if there are only 3 IPs in the Turn, etc.

What no one can do is 'spring attack'; you can't move 10m, melee, move 10m… without others having a *chance* to act. Because it is impossible, we needn't fret about it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

In RAW, it seems to be possible. Declare run mode, then you have 23m movement for your turn. Move 10m out, melee, move 10m back. You have moved a total of 20m in the combat turn so you get the -2 penalty but that's all. You only need one IP to do this (by RAW) so no-one else gets a turn to attack you.

And what about poor old Twitch? Is his plight to remain unexplained? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Stahlseele]

And this is only discussion, because it's not like it was back in the day, when the one guy who had initiative out the ass went and went and went untill he was spent and then everybody else got to chime in, when it was their time . .

[Faelan]

In RAW, it seems to be possible. Declare run mode, then you have 23m movement for your turn. Move 10m out, melee, move 10m back. You have moved a total of 20m in the combat turn so you get the -2 penalty but that's all. You only need one IP to do this (by RAW) so no-one else gets a turn to attack you.

And what about poor old Twitch? Is his plight to remain unexplained? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I recommend you read the Movement section again, it is pretty explicit. By RAW it does not operate anything like you are suggesting.

Old Twitch had to stop because of simple common sense, I realize in D&D 4E everything is spelled out. Also Twitch if he had Gymnastics might have gotten away with continuing to move while helping up someone, but SR4A and really most games out there leave that adjudication to the GM to fit his tables particular style of play.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

In RAW, it seems to be possible. Declare run mode, then you have 23m movement for your turn. Move 10m out, melee, move 10m back. You have moved a total of 20m in the combat turn so you get the -2 penalty but that's all. You only need one IP to do this (by RAW) so no-one else gets a turn to attack you.

And what about poor old Twitch? Is his plight to remain unexplained? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Except that in RAW, it is not possible because that 23 Meters of movement happens over 3 seconds. If the opponent has 3IP, you move about 8 meters per IP, so you are cut down before you ever close to your target.

Gun Fu trumps Sword Fu unless your Melee combatant is very very smart about he engages his targets... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[CanRay]

Except that in RAW, it is not possible because that 23 Meters of movement happens over 3 seconds. If the opponent has 3IP, you move about 8 meters per IP, so you are cut down before you ever close to your target.

Gun Fu trumps Sword Fu unless your Melee combatant is very very smart about he engages his targets... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

What about my Fighter-Doken attack? Have a Troll toss a sword-wielding Dwarf and Sword Fu just turned into Ranged Combat! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

What about my Fighter-Doken attack? Have a Troll toss a sword-wielding Dwarf and Sword Fu just turned into Ranged Combat! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Heh... Yep, a Fastball Special is good, assuming you can throw the Dwarf a Goodly number of Meters. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Stahlseele]

"Throw me"
*WHAT?*
"Throw me! . . But don't tell the elf!"