Adepts, keep your Spell Defenses up!, Am i nuts? Options

[blakkie]

Is it intentional, or unintentional that Adepts (of any sort) can use Spell Defense?

Being able to learn to cast spells or conjure for that matter doesn't not seem to be, by letter of the rules, a requirement for using Spell Defense. The skill description states you do need a Magic attribute above 0 to learn the Sorcery, ergo Spell Defense, skill. It does NOT state you need to learn spells or be able to cast spells, nor can i find anywhere else that it makes that requirement. Am i blind? Or was this intentional by FASA that Adepts are able to fight off spells? Using a Spell Pool? Or am i blind and missing a passage somewhere?

[Zeel De Mort]

Well, under spell defence, p183 SR3, it does talk about "the magician" and "the caster" when stating the rules for spell defence. So that does kindof imply that you have to be.. a magician to use it.

According to the skill description though, adepts can learn sorcery if they want. If your GM was pretty damn liberal in the way he interpreted the rules he might let adepts employ spell defence, but I'm guessing most wouldn't.

[Zazen]

"While adepts and mundanes can learn magical Background Skills, they cannot manipulate mana and cannot use Active Magic Skills." SR3, page 160

There are exceptions, but the spell defense specialization of sorcery is not one of them.

[Zeel De Mort]

Ah, there you go!

[Mardegun]

Actually adepts can use magical skills and they do manipulate mana. Adepts can learn aura reading, sorcery and a several skills from Mits. On tops of that they do control mana in the confines of there own body ... expect for the magician adepts, who can cast spells.

[Abstruse]

In 2nd Ed at least (not entirely sure about 3rd, I'd have to look and I'm lazy), Sorcery was used in astral combat.

The Abstruse One

[Sphynx]

[Mardegun]

What is up your butt Sphynx?

I never said that adepts could use spell defense, I only said they can use magical skills. Which you agreed with ...

Sphynx:

[Hasaku]

The way your post was phrased, Mardegun, it wasn't clear if you were implying that physads can use sorcery for spell defense. Sphynx was just refuting an argument it sounded like you were making.

[Sphynx]

Nothing up my butt, so take a chill pill, just stating the facts.

The can not manipulate mana.

They can not use Active Magical Skills except Sorcery for Astral Combat.

Those are facts, not opinions, not arguements, and definitely not anything personal.

Sphynx

[Cochise]

[Sphynx]

True that, but I don't consider Aura Reading an Active skill. You roll Intelligence for that and treat Aura Reading as a Background Skill for bonus successes. :P

Sphynx

[blakkie]

[Cochise]

[BitBasher]

I believe thats correct blakkie.

[Mardegun]

Sphynx

[Glyph]

Non-spellslingers do have some options for resisting spells.

Adepts can take Magic Resistance. There are also a few powers such as True Sight that only protect against certain types of spells. If you create an adept who follows the magician's way, then you have normal access to Sorcery and spell defense.

Mundanes can take the Magic Resistance Edge, although compared to the adept power it has drawbacks (say bye-bye to magical healing).

For conjurers, remember that a few spirits have the Magical Guard power.

[Cochise]

[Lilt]

Also a conjuror could summon some spirits (watchers and whatever big fish he can muster) and use them (and help himself) to construct a ward. The reason I suggest using many spirits is that with that many dice and all of the karma rerolls from the spirits, a good conjurer could on average get a low-force ward up after a few minutes. It's not really practical during a run, but it coulkd be used to quickly ward a vehicle or something.

Concealment and wards also make ritual sorcery much more difficult during the linking test. A conjurer with a bit of preparation time could be concealed inside a low-force ward, thus very hard to link to.

[Sphynx]

Just an FYI on Lilt's suggestion, it's the reason I don't allow karma for spirits as a GM. A spirit gets to choose where his karma is spent, not the conjurer (in my games at least, and I can't find anything to suggest otherwise). Spirits tend to use that karma for things like, not being destroyed, not being banished, etc. However, in a game where the GM let's the conjuror control the karma expenditure of his spirits, it's a good idea, I just suggest GMs not allow that.

Sphynx

[Lilt]

I can agree with your point somewhat Sphynx, but consider also that it's not up to the character when the character uses Karma, it's up to the player.

[edit] IE: The spirit's/character's desires don't always figure-in to karma expenditure. Sure a player will use a karma to prevent himself from being killed, so would a spirit, but karma is also used to do thing faster/better. If a player commanded a spirit to do something as well as it can: it should do it as well as it can, possibly including using karma if it needs to. As such I have always left the choice of when a spirit spends karma up-to the player. [/edit]

[BitBasher]

I make it so the spirit's use of Karma is wholly dependant on how well the summoner treated this and previous spirits. If he's a dick comstantly making spirits sacrifice themselves, and perform painful services, then theres no way that they will use their karma for him. Thay'll probably look for ways to twist the letter of commands after a while too.