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Redjack
post Jun 27 2011, 03:56 AM
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QUOTE (Unwired @ pg 198)
repeater drone
This flying mini-drone comes equipped with a built-in laser transceiver (Rating 3), directional antenna (Rating 4), and a radio frequency repeater to extend the Signal range of linked devices by its own Signal rating of 4.
With multiple teams looking for options to overcome matrix signal issues in the Barrens, I thought 'heck, there's a repeater drone in unwired'. If wishes were pennies....

1) laser transceiver is not defined anywhere.
2) directional antenna is not defined anywhere.
3) radio frequency repeater is not defined anywhere.

I think there is a pattern forming here.
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Yerameyahu
post Jun 27 2011, 04:21 AM
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Wait, what? Those things are all in the books.
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Fortinbras
post Jun 27 2011, 04:24 AM
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1) A Laser transceiver is most likely a Laser Link found on page 199, or on p. 58 of Arsenal or p. 39 of Augmentation, only it can both receive and transmit laser signals, hence transceiver.

2) Directional Antenna is on p. 199 of Unwired.

3)The radio frequency repeater is defined within the text; it extends the Signal of a linked device by it's own signal rating, which in this case is 4.
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Yerameyahu
post Jun 27 2011, 04:28 AM
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Makes more sense than the Retrans Unit in Arsenal, which is nearly the same (except it defaults to Rating 6?).
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Christian Lafay
post Jun 27 2011, 04:39 AM
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So if, theoretically, if an altruistic person decided to leave several of these around the barrens and rural areas then wireless would be easy as hell to obtain?
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Yerameyahu
post Jun 27 2011, 04:41 AM
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Technically, the mesh matrix means it already is. It helps if you don't think about it too much, but all matrix devices are automatically retrans/repeaters, AFAIK. They don't all offer laser/directional security, of course, and they don't all have nice high Signal ratings.
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Fortinbras
post Jun 27 2011, 04:43 AM
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QUOTE (Christian Lafay @ Jun 26 2011, 11:39 PM) *
So if, theoretically, if an altruistic person decided to leave several of these around the barrens and rural areas then wireless would be easy as hell to obtain?

Yeah, but the go gangers will just come along, steal the things and strip them for parts. That's what altruism gets you.
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Christian Lafay
post Jun 27 2011, 04:51 AM
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QUOTE (Fortinbras @ Jun 27 2011, 05:43 AM) *
Yeah, but the go gangers will just come along, steal the things and strip them for parts. That's what altruism gets you.

"You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with just a kind word." And with flying that should limit most gangs.
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hobgoblin
post Jun 27 2011, 04:53 AM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jun 27 2011, 06:41 AM) *
Technically, the mesh matrix means it already is. It helps if you don't think about it too much, but all matrix devices are automatically retrans/repeaters, AFAIK. They don't all offer laser/directional security, of course, and they don't all have nice high Signal ratings.

This have been suggested, and tested, for real life use. I know of one project that used modified android phones to act as retransmission units in a mesh network via their wifi radios. And more stationary mesh networks have been erected using wifi hotspots attached to lamp posts and such.
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Fortinbras
post Jun 27 2011, 05:01 AM
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QUOTE (Christian Lafay @ Jun 26 2011, 11:51 PM) *
"You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with just a kind word." And with flying that should limit most gangs.

You highly underestimate the resourcefulness of the ghetto. Reality Hackers or some Blood Mountain Boy's kid brother would bring the thing down. Or some kid with a lasso.
You can't leave nice things lying around in the slums of the world. These people have nothing. Nothing but time to figure out how to take your stuff. It's the same reason there will never be cameras patrolling South Dallas*, because people will take them.

*Or insert whichever bad part of town is near your city. Except CanRay. I'm pretty sure the bad part of Winnipeg is the nice part of anywhere else.
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Christian Lafay
post Jun 27 2011, 05:04 AM
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QUOTE (Fortinbras @ Jun 27 2011, 06:01 AM) *
You highly underestimate the resourcefulness of the ghetto. Reality Hackers or some Blood Mountain Boy's kid brother would bring the thing down. Or some kid with a lasso.
You can't leave nice things lying around in the slums of the world. These people have nothing. Nothing but time to figure out how to take your stuff. It's the same reason there will never be cameras patrolling South Dallas*, because people will take them.

*Or insert whichever bad part of town is near your city. Except CanRay. I'm pretty sure the bad part of Winnipeg is the nice part of anywhere else.

I would argue that, but I have a collection of "borrowed" city/county/state property. Though I like the lasso idea. And with a 4 or 6 that could be pretty high.
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Yerameyahu
post Jun 27 2011, 05:29 AM
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hobgoblin, I'm not suggesting it, I'm saying that's how the Matrix 2.0 has always worked by RAW. AFAIK. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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hobgoblin
post Jun 27 2011, 05:52 AM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jun 27 2011, 07:29 AM) *
hobgoblin, I'm not suggesting it, I'm saying that's how the Matrix 2.0 has always worked by RAW. AFAIK. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Heh, it was the "don't think about it too much" that set me on the path of rant...

As for leaving things in the barrens. Iirc, one reason for telephone not going big in some African nations is that people would cut the wires and sell them as scrap copper. And i think similar is happening in Europe and NA in recent years as well.
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LurkerOutThere
post Jun 27 2011, 07:41 AM
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The thing is hobgoblin, copper wire is valuable, especially for the amount you can get if it's unguarded. The parts on a matrix repeater not so much, presumably it's more valuable left in place.

Hell personally if i was that altruistic runner or entity I'd give the repeaters to the gangs and give a quick demo on the benefits of having them up.

Now i'm tempted to build some scenarios around project uplift.
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Fortinbras
post Jun 27 2011, 07:54 AM
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Valuable to whom? The community? Go-gangs don't have a sense of creating a sustainable community.
On the black market that thing is worth 900 nuyen. More if you break it down for parts.
Having access to the Matrix v. having an extra grand, that requires long term thinking, something gangs aren't notorious for. These are people who live for the here and now.
Having wireless access over the neighborhood may help in the long term, but so is having a violence free neighborhood, graduating high school and keeping drugs off the streets. These cats have no use of wireless Matrix for everyone. They have use of bullets, drugs and cyberware.

Plus, who is to say the gang robbing the area is from that area. Soon you have gang wars over who gets these 3,000 nuyen brand new drones. That's the cost of a Dodge Scoot.
Then, what is Lone Star comes in and confiscates these drones, claiming they were bought with drug money. Can you prove they weren't? If you can, you've got years before you'll get to appear in court to do so.
Same goes for various corps.

The Barrens are a dystopian miasma of depravity and human misery. It's what makes running possible.
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Oracle
post Jun 27 2011, 08:32 AM
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You can boost your signal range to what? 10km? All it needs is one(!) other device with access to another device with access to another device with access to....you get it. You can also have satellite access. Who needs a repeater drone for matrix access in the barrens?
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LurkerOutThere
post Jun 27 2011, 09:49 AM
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So your entire argument is that it will never work because the barrens is a dystopian miasma and nothing will ever change that? Seems rather flimsy to me, a moderately successful gang isn't stupid, and might want a way to make phone calls among their membership. If they are really too stupid to live they will be too stupid to catch the drones. None of that changes that having wireless access in the neighborhood is good in the short term, it allows unlimited access to porn if nothing else.

Basically your working really hard to come up with circular logic reasons why the idea won't fly, when I can just as easily come up with reasons why.
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Ascalaphus
post Jun 27 2011, 10:25 AM
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If just a bunch of people have cell phones, fridges with wifi and a few other gewgaws, you quickly get wireless coverage all across the neighborhood. Considering how easily the matrix spreads in SR4, you really need to make an actual effort to keep it out.
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hobgoblin
post Jun 27 2011, 12:35 PM
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inhibitor paint and wallpaper works both ways...
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Teulisch
post Jun 27 2011, 12:46 PM
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its so easy to spread, that shadow MSPs can make a profit charging for coverage of your area. just get some blimp drones that can stay up for days, give them a second commlink to act as a matrix hub, and slave the drone to you home nexi. spoofing would have to be within the directional antenna side of the drone. and the coverage is easy to move as needed. in case some idiot shoots at the drone, give the drone a rifle to shoot back.
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Redjack
post Jun 27 2011, 12:52 PM
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Appreciate the response but....

QUOTE (Fortinbras @ Jun 26 2011, 11:24 PM) *
1) A Laser transceiver is most likely a Laser Link found on page 199, or on p. 58 of Arsenal or p. 39 of Augmentation, only it can both receive and transmit laser signals, hence transceiver.
Negative. The laser transceiver is given a rating. The laser link is a ratingless device. While it *appears* to be the closest match, I do not *assume* they are the same.

QUOTE (Fortinbras @ Jun 26 2011, 11:24 PM) *
2) Directional Antenna is on p. 199 of Unwired.
I search all over and missed that; Doh! End of the night searching. Thanks!

QUOTE (Fortinbras @ Jun 26 2011, 11:24 PM) *
3)The radio frequency repeater is defined within the text; it extends the Signal of a linked device by it's own signal rating, which in this case is 4.
This seems to be a function already provided by any node in a mesh network. I guess I am expecting it to be something more by way of definition....

EDIT: Now I see the table has ratings for both the laser link & directional antenna, though the text neither mentions either, nor any affects of variant ratings. The lack of errata is frustrating..
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Modular Man
post Jun 27 2011, 01:00 PM
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On the other hand, a gang in the area might think: "Hey, three of these drones are humming around in the neighborhood, one on our turf, the other two somewhere else. So, we only need one. And if we grab those things, sell them, and set up a satellite uplink in our headquarters, we can make people pay us for their matrix access, now that they're used to it! We even got spare cash and a steady income after that!" And down go the repeater drones. A pack of wizkids are easiliy capable of collecting them, and so are other gangs.
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Redjack
post Jun 27 2011, 01:01 PM
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QUOTE (Oracle @ Jun 27 2011, 03:32 AM) *
You can boost your signal range to what? 10km? All it needs is one(!) other device with access to another device with access to another device with access to....you get it. You can also have satellite access. Who needs a repeater drone for matrix access in the barrens?
I've been working on very detailed, to scale, maps of the Puyallup Barrens and you have to be WAY out to not be within 10km of a tower, given that some people living in the class C areas are going to have coms with signal ranges as low as 100m (metalink).
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Thanee
post Jun 27 2011, 01:02 PM
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QUOTE (Redjack @ Jun 27 2011, 02:52 PM) *
This seems to be a function already provided by any node in a mesh network.


That was my impression, too, when I first saw that drone... what's so special about it? Every node can do that (because otherwise it wouldn't be a node).

Bye
Thanee
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Redjack
post Jun 27 2011, 01:09 PM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jun 26 2011, 11:41 PM) *
Technically, the mesh matrix means it already is. It helps if you don't think about it too much, but all matrix devices are automatically retrans/repeaters, AFAIK. They don't all offer laser/directional security, of course, and they don't all have nice high Signal ratings.
Given that most people can only afford coms with signal ratings 2-3 (100m/400m) this is where I see the spotty nature of the matrix access in the Barrens. When your com hits a perfect storm of being able to compute a route to civilization.
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