Mutual Signal Range, a.k.a. the story of the abandoned game mechanic Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Switch to: Outline Standard Switch to: Linear+

[longbowrocks]

So, I've been meaning to ask this for a while, but only just remembered:
What hacker actions require mutual signal range? The book says "most do" and then never mentions it again. I would say anything that requires feedback requires mutual signal range, so things like sending commands to your drones would not require it.
Does this pop up somewhere in the rules, or is it really a house rule thing?

[Ascalaphus]

So, I've been meaning to ask this for a while, but only just remembered:
What hacker actions require mutual signal range? The book says "most do" and then never mentions it again. I would say anything that requires feedback requires mutual signal range, so things like sending commands to your drones would not require it.
Does this pop up somewhere in the rules, or is it really a house rule thing?

There's probably a section about it in Unwired, but I don't like Unwired.

I think this is an area where common sense and a basic understand of computer suffice to make adequate GM calls.

[hobgoblin]

I think it gets "abandoned" because runner more often then not operate in areas where the hacker can route traffic via the matrix.

Other then that i think most scenarios would involve some kind of broadcast. Like a sensor transmitting readings.

[Blog]

I have had it used against me though.

Facility could scramble some flying drones. The drones only had wireless enabled when doing a flyby of a predesignated hot-spot that had a very short range transmission. They were not rigged so that made them slightly less annoying, but very difficult to try and interfere with their programming.

I would suspect nearly all wireless communication follows a hand-shaking model (Node A and B need to talk back and forth to negotiate communication) and would therefore apply the need for mutual signal range. Exceptions can occur though. For example you have a strong transmitter which sends signals straight to a device 10km away (1 hop), the return signals then would traverse across the matrix to return (many hops)

[Redjack]

They were not rigged

See below.

All drones are equipped with rigger adaptation.

[Adarael]

In a nutshell, any matrix activity that requires two-way communication requires mutual signal range. For instance, hacking, file editing, browsing, cybercombat... But not spoofing a command (it's a fire-and-forget), decrypting wireless traffic (you just need to hear it, not broadcast back), or searching for a hidden node (again, you just need to hear it).

[Tanegar]

See below.

So? Just because all drones can be rigged doesn't mean they are rigged all the time.

[Redjack]

So? Just because all drones can be rigged doesn't mean they are rigged all the time.

The context appeared that the drones lacked "rigger adaption", not that they were "jumped into" as it appears you are implying.

[suoq]

In a nutshell, any matrix activity that requires two-way communication requires mutual signal range. For instance, hacking, file editing, browsing, cybercombat... But not spoofing a command (it's a fire-and-forget), decrypting wireless traffic (you just need to hear it, not broadcast back), or searching for a hidden node (again, you just need to hear it).

I know of no matrix activity that does not require mutual signal range by raw. I can justify house rules for the ones you've specified but I can also justify every matrix activity requiring mutual signal range.

As an example, it's perfectly plausible that each signal level is a different TYPE of antenna or protocol, so that a transmission being broadcast at a signal power of 5 requires a device with a signal of 5 to receive it*. I see no reason a device can't multi-band it's transmissions. However, that's clearly a house justification for mutual signal range. Likewise, claiming spoofing is Fire-and-forget as opposed to command/response/authentication is a house rule for one way spoofing.

If someone can point me to some RAW that says some matrix activities are one-way and specifies which ones, I'd appreciate it.

[squee_nabob]

You need either mutual signal range, or a matrix path to subscribe. Many matrix actions can only be preformed on nodes you are subscribed to.

[Blog]

The context appeared that the drones lacked "rigger adaption", not that they were "jumped into" as it appears you are implying.

My context was the following:
The drones were not actively rigged by a person, therefore the task was easier as they was a slight delay on adapting to changing situations. They had to either be given the orders up front and hope the pilot understood, or wait for a flyby to get updated orders to the changing battle.

The drones did have rigger adaptation, but due to their current config there wouldn't be a constant signal to facilitate the communication (legit or hacking).

IE the windows were so narrow hacking was next to impossible.

[Redjack]

My context was the following:
The drones were not actively rigged by a person, therefore the task was easier as they was a slight delay on adapting to changing situations. They had to either be given the orders up front and hope the pilot understood, or wait for a flyby to get updated orders to the changing battle.

The drones did have rigger adaptation, but due to their current config there wouldn't be a constant signal to facilitate the communication (legit or hacking).

IE the windows were so narrow hacking was next to impossible.

So they are dropping in and out of signal range? ergo in and out of the matrix? and the signal rating of the drones was something like a 1 (40m range) or 0 (3m range)?

[KarmaInferno]

I can see that happening. My PC rigger's drones are set up to attempt to use beam link whenever possible (laser or microwave), and failing that they only use Radio in short bursts, adjusting their Signal rating to the minimum needed to maintain connections. They drop to Matrix routing only as a last resort. Maximum network defenses, of course.



-k

[Yerameyahu]

It seems pretty obvious which things need a mutual signal (i.e., basically all of them), though there are a couple major questionable areas. The biggest is Spoofing, I'd say; AFAIK, the consensus is that spoofing commands does not require a two-way connection. Others include broadcasting a help call or Issued Command, Jamming, etc.

[Sengir]

It seems pretty obvious which things need a mutual signal (i.e., basically all of them)

Now if you can provide a piece of RAW which says "hacking is only possible when standing right next to the node"...

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Now if you can provide a piece of RAW which says "hacking is only possible when standing right next to the node"...

Why would you neeed that? Mutual Signal Range can be gained through Matrix Relay. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[HunterHerne]

Why would you neeed that? Mutual Signal Range can be gained through Matrix Relay. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Which is why most (if not all) corporate nodes should have a very secure gate node, sort of a front desk you have to go to after looking at the foyer (the public node), and every non-public node in the building should have almost no signal range, or be hard wired.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Which is why most (if not all) corporate nodes should have a very secure gate node, sort of a front desk you have to go to after looking at the foyer (the public node), and every non-public node in the building should have almost no signal range, or be hard wired.

No Arguments there... problem is that it is WAY more convenient to not do that. And as you well know, Convenience drives more advancement than does security.

[HunterHerne]

No Arguments there... problem is that it is WAY more convenient to not do that. And as you well know, Convenience drives more advancement than does security.

While true, what are your thoughts on nodes slaved to the same node talking to each other? Even if they have to go through that other node.

[Mongoose]

My context was the following:
The drones were not actively rigged by a person, therefore the task was easier as they was a slight delay on adapting to changing situations. They had to either be given the orders up front and hope the pilot understood, or wait for a flyby to get updated orders to the changing battle.

The drones did have rigger adaptation, but due to their current config there wouldn't be a constant signal to facilitate the communication (legit or hacking).

IE the windows were so narrow hacking was next to impossible.

That's actually pretty clever- if you have decent quality pilot programs, its a good way to avoid drone hacking. Assuming the protocols exist, you could even keep tabs on what the "drones" (actually pretty much robots, in this case) are doing by having them broadcast sensor imagery, effectively making them operate in "broadcast only, do not receive" mode. That way you still know if one of them runs into trouble. Hell, you could even remove the CAPACITY to receive wireless, and just have them pick up new orders by docking at a port (likely charging batteries at the same time).

[Aku]

Heres why that little sentence basically fell off the books:

Everything requires a mutual signal range. BUT because everything is wireless, as long as you're in range of something that can get range on something else that can get range on your target, you're good!

So even if theres 50 bajillion miles between you and your target, as long as theres a wireless node within signal range of another node all the way down the line. You're good.

[suoq]

BUT because everything is wireless, as long as you're in range of something that can get range on something else that can get range on your target, you're good!

Honestly, that makes no sense to me. That implies that everything that's wireless is also open and deliberately functions as a repeater. I can see that as the default setting on commlinks. I can even see the owners of area requiring all commlinks in the area need to be open and serving as repeaters. I can see the owners of an area providing public repeaters. I can't see them allowing public traffic through their sensitive networks.

X device is NOT on the Matrix seems to be a natural result of the shadowrun environment. Runners may want a public commlink but I can see them also wanting a very private commlink. CAS installations do not want some NAN technomancer coming in over the matrix to their private little world. If I was in charge of GangNet, I'd have my matrix link dump all of today's new porn down to chip, scan that chip, and upload it to GangNet. I don't need any suits hopping on my channels.

[Aku]

Does it make sense? no not really, but thems the rules. Wireless is on by default. in Theory, you could hack your way down a street, by jumping from lamp post to lamp post, which has wireless for...who knows what...

[HunterHerne]

Does it make sense? no not really, but thems the rules. Wireless is on by default. in Theory, you could hack your way down a street, by jumping from lamp post to lamp post, which has wireless for...who knows what...

The infrastructure is still likely wired, and the commlinks are designed to work like that so a concentrated attack on a few places can't take down the whole matrix (a la Crash 2.0). However, just because they all work like a retrans unit, doesn't mean they have access to your precious files, which is where all the stuff on security comes from, be it shortened wireless, wired, IC/black IC, gateway nodes, wireless inhibiting paint/wallpaper, even underground complexes, or orbitals. It is also possible to do the old "Nothing is saved to my main computer, and the data storage one doesn't have wireless", if you want to. I know all my sensitive corp information is usually saved on a series of these in the institutions I do up, and/or on commlinks that "never" leave the compound.

[Yerameyahu]

I dunno why people have trouble with this. The Matrix 2.0 is fundamentally based on the assumption that there's an automagic mesh. If you reject that assumption, prepare for trouble. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)