[X] My Assistant

[HunterHerne]

I dunno why people have trouble with this. The Matrix 2.0 is fundamentally based on the assumption that there's an automagic mesh. If you reject that assumption, prepare for trouble. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Well, to be fair, when the fluff seems to disagree, like with all the drones with retrans, it's not hard to understand why people get so confused.

[DWC]

Well, to be fair, when the fluff seems to disagree, like with all the drones with retrans, it's not hard to understand why people get so confused.

Drones have retrans because nodes in Hidden Mode aren't part of the mesh. It let's you push the matrix without having an easily traced node hanging out in space.

[Yerameyahu]

That, and the Retrans Unit has a much higher Signal than most (all?) drones.

[Redjack]

Also, it should be noted that the term being tossed around as "retrans" is not equivalent to what is currently known in networking as "broadcast" (ergo: bridged), rather it is equatable to "routing". Routing is discriminate about the traffic to pass traffic the correct to the correct destination and not to pass traffic that need not be passed. There is also a difference between PAN connected and matrix connected. Some of the authors have even suggested that matrix connections via mesh vs matrix connections via a matrix provider can also be selected much like you can choose you 802.11 connections today and even reject all ad-hoc connections.

[Yerameyahu]

What is true is that you rarely have to worry about connectivity and range in 'populated' areas, unless they're specifically making you (Hidden nodes, wifi inhibitors, etc.). Whether this is logical or believable is a question for the house rulers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[suoq]

I dunno why people have trouble with this. The Matrix 2.0 is fundamentally based on the assumption that there's an automagic mesh. If you reject that assumption, prepare for trouble. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

You get trouble either way. If there is an automatic mesh then the whole "It's only connected by skinlink and therefore is unhackable" goes away. The same logic that lets characters disconnect from the matrix is the same logic that lets everyone disconnect from the matrix.

[Yerameyahu]

Oh, I agree. I'm just saying you definitely can't expect things to make sense if you deny the basic facts. It's a tenuous shared agreement, the Matrix 2.0 is.

[Ascalaphus]

I don't see what all the fuss is about..

Most of the time, the Matrix works just fine, meshing and ad-hoccing away. But now and then you have a mission in an area with jamming, or interfering radiation, or deep underground, or far away from civilization. And that's when the retrans drones and mods become necessary.

So, just because a retrans drone exists, doesn't mean the Matrix needs them to function normally inside Civilization™.

[Inu]

You get trouble either way. If there is an automatic mesh then the whole "It's only connected by skinlink and therefore is unhackable" goes away. The same logic that lets characters disconnect from the matrix is the same logic that lets everyone disconnect from the matrix.

It still works fine; your commlink is only part of the automagic mesh if it's in Active mode. If it's Hidden or Passive, it doesn't get used as a router. So you keep your public commlink on Active and connected to nothing in your PAN, you keep your black commlink on Hidden and everything else skinlinked to that one. The black commlink is still hackable as long as its wireless is on -- it's just harder to find. If your smartgun is connected to your black commlink, then it CAN be hacked, they just have to go through the commlink first.

But that's not telling you anything new. It's the way it's always worked. And the way it works today, really. If you want to be 'unhackable', disable your connections. It's the only way.

[hobgoblin]

I think the retrans drone in Unwired is a holdover from past editions where drone rigging was a bit like a oversized RC setup.

Under those rules you could only send drones as far as your remote control deck could get a signal.

In a way, drone rigging have lost some of its bite with the consolidation of rigging and matrix.

[Sengir]

Why would you neeed that? Mutual Signal Range can be gained through Matrix Relay. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

You would need that because "mutual signal range" means that the two devices can "hear" each other DIRECTLY, not via routing over intermediate nodes.

SR4A, p. 222:
When two devices are within the range of the lowest Signal rating of the two, they are said to be in mutual Signal range; this is required for direct device-to device communication and for other applications.

So if nearly all matrix actions did indeed require mutual signal range, hacking and rigging would be completely gimped.

[StevenAngier]

Or it would simply take away the wind out of the sails for the "SR4 is all about hacking!" and "I NEED to be unhackable"bunch. As it is not THAT likely to be hacked on the fly just by being on the streets.

[Redjack]

So if nearly all matrix actions did indeed require mutual signal range, hacking and rigging would be completely gimped.

I don't think anyone is implying that mutual signal range is required for anything other than device to device communication. However, if a node/drone/etc is currently configured only to allow device to device communication, then that specific device could only be hacked when you are in mutual signal range.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

You would need that because "mutual signal range" means that the two devices can "hear" each other DIRECTLY, not via routing over intermediate nodes.

SR4A, p. 222:
When two devices are within the range of the lowest Signal rating of the two, they are said to be in mutual Signal range; this is required for direct device-to device communication and for other applications.

So if nearly all matrix actions did indeed require mutual signal range, hacking and rigging would be completely gimped.

But you do not need Mutual Signal Range between 2 independant devices to have mutual signal range through the Mesh Network (which it appears that you agree with, unless I am reading you wrong). Which is the point. As long as you can draw valid network connections between 2 points, you are considered to be in Mutual Signal Range. That is what the Mesh Network is for, after all. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Sengir]

I don't think anyone is implying that mutual signal range is required for anything other than device to device communication.

Well, normally I would admit that I was not sure whether he meant to say that or was just using the term in another meaning than the RAW uses it for, because Yerameyahu is quite savvy with the rules and terminology...but remarks about somebody's general posting style are considered flaming, so of course I won't do that...

However, if a node/drone/etc is currently configured only to allow device to device communication, then that specific device could only be hacked when you are in mutual signal range.

1337 h4XX: Root a device within that range and install a proxy on it

My personal handwavium for "no, you can't hack that thing from afar, because the GM said so" is that the device is configured not to accept incoming connections from the outside (ie. like something behind a NAT), which is uncomfortable and everything but still used sometimes. And no, NAT spoofing does not exist (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

@TJ: The point was terminology, RAW uses the term "mutual signal range" in a clear meaning and that is "two devices which can talk to each other directly". There's already enough inconsistent terminology in the books, no need to muddle it any further (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

@TJ: The point was terminology, RAW uses the term "mutual signal range" in a clear meaning and that is "two devices which can talk to each other directly". There's already enough inconsistent terminology in the books, no need to muddle it any further (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Gotcha... No worries... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Ascalaphus]

Yes, RAW defines Mutual Signal Range as a situation when the two devices can connect directly.

But! There is only one situation when you need MSR, and an indirect Matrix connection won't suffice: for the Detect Hidden Node action.

Everything else can be done as long as there exists at least an indirect path through the Matrix.

[Yerameyahu]

I can see what you're saying, but I do think everyone rightly assumes we're including matrix routing under the umbrella of mutual signal range.

[Ascalaphus]

I just CTRL-F'ed through SR4A and Unwired about it. They really don't pay much attention to the whole subject; SR4A just says that everything is cool as long as there exists a two-way (in)direct communication path.

[suoq]

It still works fine; your commlink is only part of the automagic mesh if it's in Active mode.

Then everyone else's commlinks are only part of they automagic mesh if they're in Active mode. Suddenly in any area outside of corporate zones that
require active mode, the mesh rapidly goes away. In corporate zones that demand zero active modes, the mesh also goes away. Lots of meshless areas.

[hobgoblin]

This depends on how many opt to go passive or hidden once out of those "zones".

[suoq]

This depends on how many opt to go passive or hidden once out of those "zones".

Why wouldn't they? That should be as sane as checking your ammo and safety. Am I missing something?

[HunterHerne]

Why wouldn't they? That should be as sane as checking your ammo and safety. Am I missing something?

Corporate sponsored law requires certain information be transmitted at all times in many public areas. For that transmission, you need to run in active mode. THeMatrix benefits would be a nice side advantage, too.

[hobgoblin]

Why wouldn't they? That should be as sane as checking your ammo and safety. Am I missing something?

Consider the number of people that seem to spill their innermost thoughts onto facebook and elsewhere and then go "oh crap" when someone actually points out openness.

There is likely a million and one little "helper" apps for comlinks that runners have no need for, but that wageslaves love. These all may well require active mode to work. And those that forgo them for security reasons may well be poked fun at as luddites and paranoid. And the "only criminals have something to hide" runs strong even today, would it be any different in SR? Especially only a few years after a massive terrorist plot?

[Yerameyahu]

Agreed: normal people use Active Mode.