Hit the waters with Deadly Waves--watercraft PDF out now!, Also, Arsenal has been updated! Options

[Sengir]

Perhaps they wanted to avoid us accusing them of releasing Errata only in a new, printed edition. That's the only somewhat plausible reason I can think of.

Uhmm, the second printing did already contain the old errata...

[Nebular]

Perhaps they wanted to avoid us accusing them of releasing Errata only in a new, printed edition. That's the only somewhat plausible reason I can think of.

But isn't that one of the reasons you do a new printing run (besides to just replenish your stock and get more copies out into the market)? This is what they did with the old SR4 rule books if I recall. Each new printing incorporated the errata from previous ones. Yeah, it's not exactly great for people like us who have the original printed copy, but it seems silly that someone picking it up for the first time needs to go and look at errata that has been out for 2.5 years for a newly printed book they just picked up. Those who had the old book as a PDF are getting the new printing through their accounts on BattleCorps, so why not apply it? They'd at least be able to take advantage of it, and it would give those with the old print copy some incentive to drop the money on the new PDF version.

The question remains, of course, whether they will release the Errata. I guess not, but I can't even think of a reason for that.

I'd love to see the revised errata for it, and for books that have been out for 2+ years with no errata that really need it. The FAQ is in dire need of updating as well. But if they've been neglected this long, I'm doubting they'll suddenly surface at this point. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[hobgoblin]

Well there has been a flurry of new releases (both physical and digital), and the permanent CGL staff is likely not large, so it could be a issue of limited manpower and hours.

[Sengir]

Well there has been a flurry of new releases (both physical and digital)

There has been no errata for over two years, long before the recent bunch of releases or the great freelancer exodus...

[hermit]

And they had the time to go over the book for typos. This is intentional, though other than the above mentioned reason, I can't think of anything for this to male sense.

[Stahlseele]

Wait . . the first SR4 Products . . Are those the WizKids/FanPro Versions again?

[hobgoblin]

There has been no errata for over two years, long before the recent bunch of releases or the great freelancer exodus...

And how many of the errata-worthy products where in the works or near to getting a second printing before then?

Then again, i think the only guy at CGL at the time that "understood" digital benefits to publishing was Jury.

[Sengir]

This is intentional

Sadly I'll have to agree. Nobody can keep a straight face claiming that the second consecutive re-release (after SM) got de-errataed due to an oversight, it simply is a brazen-faced "fuck you" to new buyers and existing fans alike. I have the German version in DTF and keep the old PDF, but such a statement simply ticks me off.
This mentality of knowingly releasing a crap product and hoping some poor idiots will buy it is exactly what lead to the disaster which was War!, so CGL should know better. Actually, until this morning I was quite positive they did, because the new products showed things were going back on track again (let's ignore Parazoology (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ). And now THIS *shakes head*

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

This mentality of knowingly releasing a crap product and hoping some poor idiots will buy it is exactly what lead to the disaster which was War!, so CGL should know better. Actually, until this morning I was quite positive they did, because the new products showed things were going back on track again (let's ignore Parazoology (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ). And now THIS *shakes head*

And yet, that is exactly how 90% of businesses work. Just look at the majority of Computer programs that are released, knowingly bugged and less than perfect. Or the vast majority of products that just do not last compared to what was being made 50 years ago. It is a business model that has been proven to work, and the vast majority of businesses follow it...

Not that I applaud it, mind you. It does suck. But that is how it is these days. Very Few businesses put out quality product, and then stand by it.

[hermit]

Well, one other thnk I can think of is a total fail of management (Hardy). As in, he takes his Arsenal file (unerrata'd) and hands it to someone to "correct typos on this list and the cover", not even thinking of the fact that that way he's actually de-errata'ing a book (either because he does not care, or because he is too disorganised).

Not that that makes this any better.

And yet, that is exactly how 90% of businesses work. (...) Very Few businesses put out quality product, and then stand by it.

Depends on where the company is located. Export oriented countries that aren't able to unercut China's prices cannot afford this. Pegasus and CGL are an excellent case study in different business mentalities for that reason (not that Pegasus is an exporter, it's more of a general mentality).

[Sengir]

And yet, that is exactly how 90% of businesses work. Just look at the majority of Computer programs that are released, knowingly bugged and less than perfect.

...and subsequently gets patched, often at the day of the release. Hence the German pseudo-anglicism (at least I've never heard a native speaker use it) "bananaware" - ripens at the customer's.
CGL, however, sells green bananas which never ripen and patches those which did ripen so they turn green again.

[Mayhem_2006]

More discussion of boats, less discussion of corporate philosophy, please.

[hermit]

On top of that, we have a new printing of Arsenal--the book with the guns and the armor and the explosions and the hurting--that’s out and about. It has page references updated to Shadowrun, Twentieth Anniversary Edition, a few typo fixes, and a shiny new cover. Check it out at the Battleshop or DrivethruRPG! Note that if you have previously purchased the Arsenal PDF, these changes should be available to you as a free update.

We're a lot more on topic than you are.

[Mäx]

Well, one other thnk I can think of is a total fail of management (Hardy). As in, he takes his Arsenal file (unerrata'd) and hands it to someone to "correct typos on this list and the cover", not even thinking of the fact that that way he's actually de-errata'ing a book (either because he does not care, or because he is too disorganised).

Or just hands on the list of thinks to correct to someome who takes the Arsenal file from their hard drive without realizing that it's not the correct Arsenal file.

[hermit]

Or that. Either way, it speaks volumes on the amount of quality control this book went through, sadly.

[redwulf25]

*pats german pegasus books with included errata*

If it came with included English translation I'd buy it. Although I shouldn't HAVE TO to get errata.

[Mäx]

If it came with included English translation I'd buy it. Although I shouldn't HAVE TO to get errata.

Well for arsenal errata you can just go to the official site and download it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Sengir]

Well, one other thnk I can think of is a total fail of management (Hardy). As in, he takes his Arsenal file (unerrata'd) and hands it to someone to "correct typos on this list and the cover", not even thinking of the fact that that way he's actually de-errata'ing a book (either because he does not care, or because he is too disorganised).

Or just hands on the list of thinks to correct to someome who takes the Arsenal file from their hard drive without realizing that it's not the correct Arsenal file.

Guys, this is the SECOND book where this happens, after the new Street Magic. De-errataing one book is accidental, it's the sort of thing which happens because nobody thinks to check such an obvious thing. But no member of the Hominoidea blunders twice in such a stupid way.

[Ascalaphus]

Has CGL ever explained why they do(don't) do errata in this strange way?

[Bigity]

Has CGL ever explained why they do(don't) do errata in this strange way?

It doesn't make money, IIRC. Which they had to have after recent...events.

[hermit]

Guys, this is the SECOND book where this happens, after the new Street Magic. De-errataing one book is accidental, it's the sort of thing which happens because nobody thinks to check such an obvious thing. But no member of the Hominoidea blunders twice in such a stupid way.

Point taken.

This makes it even more bizarre. Sloppyness is one thing, but intentionally damaging your product is a whole new level.

[Sengir]

This makes it even more bizarre. Sloppyness is one thing, but intentionally damaging your product is a whole new level.

Exactly

Something else I just thought of, what effect does this have on Missions? One would assume the most recent printing supersedes previous errata, so "we don't know no errata" is the official RAW now?

[Fikealox]

If that's the reason, I hope they realise it's an error. It would cost very little to accomplish, and I can't be the only person who'd happily pay for fixed up pdf versions of books that I already own. Plus, they'd be keeping their customers happy, which is usually a good move for a business. I've already ditched one RPG company (guess which one) for stubbornly and sullenly refusing to support and rectify their products.

Actually, I love errata so much that I'd happily pay a subscription fee if CGL would employ someone to lurk on the SR forums and release monthly compilations of well-reasoned official determinations on rules issues.

[edit: I just had a thought. I don't know much about the corporate history of the SR line, but maybe CGL somehow doesn't actually own the errata? So maybe they can provide it free on the website, but can't charge for it.]

Fikealox, there's no call for that kind of vicious sarcasm. … Wait, were you serious? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Haha, a bit of both (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I did buy and enjoy Deadly Waves.

[CanRay]

More discussion of boats, less discussion of corporate philosophy, please.

*Cocks pintel-mounted .50-Cal on my Houseboat* I'm on a boat!

Actually, I finally got it, so I'll give a read and my own 0.02 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) myself in a bit, when I have time to go through it.

[Fatum]

Okay, read the book. What can I say - I like it, for what it's worth - it gives some ideas on water-based runs, but I just don't see many people using them.

Now, on to criticism this forum is so well-known for!
The shadowtalker RL interaction mentioned here and there seems really forced. They are what, half a hundred people in the big wide world, and yet they meet each other regularly? Right, they're professionals in a field with a limited number of highly qualified workers, but still. Would make more sense if such encounters were mentioned more often in other books...
Some shadowtalk is weird or seems a bit out of character, like Slamm-O! teaching pirates their craft, or Dr.Spin commenting "Wish I had thought of it" on an advertisement slogan pushing the repair drones as something “every safe boat cannot do without”. Seriously?
Then, there are just bits that are plainly wrong or stupid, like a shadowtalker mentioning that using a loud civilian vehicle for distraction only works in trids or urban brawl. Urban brawl? With civilian vehicles on the field (or rather, brawlers using them for any reason)? Hmmm? Then, the book mentions smuggler Tiburons in the Mediterranean, which everyone takes for theirs, and that lets them slip by. Uh, is the ancient artifact called "friend-foe systems" forgotten in Shadowrun? Doesn't seem so, minding that you can install one on a gun...