Outfitting a Mitsuhama Tomino, Assuming that money is not an issue Options

[Elfenlied]

Hi all,
I'm currently statting a BBEG for the current run, where the players decided to raid the base of a small PMC. Now, to make things interesting, I decided to give the PMC some homeground advantages, like flooding the entire area with warp gas. Regardless, the players have managed to overcome the majority of the opposition, and are now en route to the final encounter.

The final battle is currently designed to take place in an enclosed warehouse, outfitted with sentry guns, with several spirits lingering in the astral space. The main opponent is a Mitsuhama Tomino, but I've got trouble statting it properly. They can be outfitted with 20 hardened armor, but not with actual vehicle weapons, which makes it a tough choice. Thus far, it uses a ballistic shield, with a vibroclaymore in the outer hand, and gun turrets mounted on the top.

Now, are there any specific upgrades it would need?

[Method]

Knasser had a pdf file on his site detailing a fully loaded and armed Tomino. If you do a search or check out his profile you should be able to find it. Alternately im sure someone around here has a copy or a link. Id post one, but im on my wifes stupid google phone currently.

[Elfenlied]

Unfortunately, his site seems to be down.

[KarmaInferno]

They can be outfitted with 20 hardened armor, but not with actual vehicle weapons

Why not? Vehicle Weapons can go in Fixed Weapon Mounts too, not just Heavy Turrets. Some can be installed in Flexible mounts as well.

Some Heavy Weapons work well too if you don't want to use Vehicle Weapons, those just need a Reinforced mount. Remember that LMGs can be mounted on regular mounts. The Oil Slick Sprayer mod can also take other chemicals, if you think it'd be fun to douse the runners with nasty toxins.

Additionally, remember that you can pack cyberware into the limbs.

Chameleon Coating can up the survivability even in a direct fight. -4 to all the runner's perception tests to locate it, this works especially well if it uses smoke projectors. Signature Masking helps too if the runners are using drones of their own. Special Armor Modification vs Electrical attacks is not a bad idea, as many Runner automatically try to shut down drones with Stick & Shock and the like.

Change the environment. Put the firefight in a freezer warehouse. Give the Tomino and all it's support equipment Extreme Environment Modification so they operate normally in intense cold. The runners probably won't have cold weather gear. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Or alternately put the fight in a metal foundry and change all the Cold gear to Heat.

Put in a ton of moving noisy machinery so sound-based Perception checks are penalized. Give the Tomino a Select Sound Filter so it doesn't hear the machines, so it isn't also penalized.

Remember that a Tomino pilot is usually an elite level hacker as well. Not only does he probably have 5 IPs a turn, he can mess with the runner's wireless gear. Imagine hijacking their tacNet to feed false info or impersonating one of the other runners during the fight. Or even just shutting off the runner's weapons, at least temporarily.

If runners decide to melee the thing, the Electric Shock anti-theft system option is nifty. 10S Electric damage every time they they contact the Tomino.

If you really want to keep the pilot NPC for future use, give it an ejection system for the CCU, along with some movement mods so the braincase can actually fly away after the runners take the Tomino down.

[Ryu]

Quoted from self: Ares Thunderbolt

Ares Thunderbolt 350k¥
2 mechanical full arms 8k¥, 2*2 slots
Armor Rating 20, 4k¥ 1 slot
Improved Sensor Array 1k¥, 1 slot
Fleche Hail Barrage Rocket Launcher (reinforced flexible weapon mount) 20k¥, 3 slots
Ares Heavy MP Laser 30k¥ (fixed mount right arm), 1 slot

The onboard commlink is ouf course military 6-rated, and provides 5 IP. The Commstar OS comes with Analyse, Armor, Biofeedback Filters, Black Hammer, ECCM, and Stealth. All those programs are also rating 6 and have the ergonomic and optimisation 2 options. Buyers who don´t have experienced jarheads, but need skill fast, can buy an appropiate skillsoft-cluster (Walkers 5, Gunnery 5, Dodge 5, all Pluscode-1).

By now outdated due to War!, the comlink would have to be rated higher. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Ryu]

Response 10 192k, System 10 500k, Firewall 10 500k, Anti-Aircraft Assist 1.2k, Tactical Satellite Mapping Software 4k. 1.2 million for the "basics".

[Udoshi]

on a tomino, I'm a fan of a Multilaunch Drone rack.

Nobody expects the terminator to drop a buzzing swarm of dragonflies on people.

Or heimdalls.

As for weapons, I like giving them Eyelasers. Weapon mount, Concealed, Fixed with an Ares MP Heavy laser inside.

[Elfenlied]

Well, I ran the Tomino encounter yesterday. The final loadout I used was:
20 armor
Shoulder-mounted AA-16 with Ammo bin
Eye-lasers (Laser rifle with burst fire mod)
2 mechanical arms
Vibroclaymore
Ballistic Shield

And he pretty much TPK'd the party, which consisted of a possession mage, a sniper adept, a troll sam and an ork sam. 20 hardened armor is pretty brutal, but anything that bypasses it pretty much creams the vehicle.

[Ryu]

I don´t remember who came up with it, but there is the old houserule idea of treating hardened armor as 1/2 armor auto hits, 1/2 armor rolled for damage resistance.


There are only a few options to stop such a beast. I´d go with Gauss Rifle on the Troll, AV-loaded Sniper Rifle for the Sniper Adept, and AV-loaded HMG on the Ork.

If the possession mage is a houngan, a Guardian spirit with Exotic Weapon: Laser Weapons would be extremely interesting. Should there be no gyro-mounts available (as in "the guards use only fixed gun-pits"), the extra strength and body from a Force 7 will enable you to use the heavy MP-Laser without mount, while granting +7 agility and 7 skill.

[Udoshi]

Against beasts like this, anything with AP-Half is your best bet.

Surprisingly, this makes flamethrowers decent, as are Ramming attacks.


Vehicles don't actually have hardened armor, they just lack stun tracks, and ignore damage downgraded.

MRSI software ad explosives ought to do a decent job of taking out such a tomino, as well.

[Elfenlied]

I had at first considered to make the ground conductive, and send a jolt through it once per combat round, dealing 10s(e) damage to everyone but the Tomino, thanks to his armor. I scrapped the idea, however, after the first wide choke shotgun salvo sent 3 of them almost to their death.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I had at first considered to make the ground conductive, and send a jolt through it once per combat round, dealing 10s(e) damage to everyone but the Tomino, thanks to his armor. I scrapped the idea, however, after the first wide choke shotgun salvo sent 3 of them almost to their death.

Indeed. A properly built Tomino (or even an Otomo) can totally wreck the player's Characters. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[sabs]

did the sniper end up doing some rediculously high damage edge shot?

take aim, take aim, take aim, called shot to lower ac, edge, then pray to open end up?

[KarmaInferno]

Vehicles don't actually have hardened armor, they just lack stun tracks, and ignore damage downgraded.

Hardened armor bounces any attack that does not have a DV higher than the armor's rating.

Vehicle armor bounces any attack that does not have a DV higher than the armor's rating.

Okay, technically Vehicle Armor isn't precisely NAMED "hardened armor", but the effect is virtually the same. I do not get why people always are so quick to insist "vehicles don't have hardened armor" when the subject comes up. It is an effective shorthand to understanding the 'bounce' effect.

That vehicles have no stun track is a separate issue.





-k

[Elfenlied]

did the sniper end up doing some rediculously high damage edge shot?

take aim, take aim, take aim, called shot to lower ac, edge, then pray to open end up?

Actually, no. The Trollsam with his Ares Vigorous Autocannon did 5 damage to the Tomino, before being taken out by the Eyelasers. The Sniper only had a DP of 10, due to various circumstances (aftereffects of Warp, wound modifiers, and later thermal smoke). The Sniper did take him out, with a dose of lil'smoke, hiding, and attacking the Tomino with unarmed called shots combined with Elemental strike. All the other characters were down by then; even a possession based troll with a F4 weapon focus looses against someone with 5IP in close combat.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Hardened armor bounces any attack that does not have a DV higher than the armor's rating.

Vehicle armor bounces any attack that does not have a DV higher than the armor's rating.

Okay, technically Vehicle Armor isn't precisely NAMED "hardened armor", but the effect is virtually the same. I do not get why people always are so quick to insist "vehicles don't have hardened armor" when the subject comes up. It is an effective shorthand to understanding the 'bounce' effect.

That vehicles have no stun track is a separate issue.

-k

That vehicles have no stun track leads people to believe that they have hardened Armor. Vehicles do NOT have hardened armor. The have the ability to shrug off Stun, which is something completely different. If the vehicle armor reduces the damage to Stun, the stun is then ignored. The round does not "Bounce" as it does with critters with the Hardened Armor Power. They are 2 Completely different Effects there KarmaInferno. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[KarmaInferno]

That vehicles have no stun track leads people to believe that they have hardened Armor. Vehicles do NOT have hardened armor. The have the ability to shrug off Stun, which is something completely different. If the vehicle armor reduces the damage to Stun, the stun is then ignored. The round does not "Bounce" as it does with critters with the Hardened Armor Power. They are 2 Completely different Effects there KarmaInferno. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

"If an attack’s modified DV does not exceed a vehicle’s modified Armor rating, then the attack automatically fails." - Vehicle Armor, SR4A pg 167

Sounds like Hardened Armor to me. Even if it's not named as such.




-k

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

"If an attack’s modified DV does not exceed a vehicle’s modified Armor rating, then the attack automatically fails." - Vehicle Armor, SR4A pg 167

Sounds like Hardened Armor to me. Even if it's not named as such.

-k

It fails because the Vehicle has no Stun Track. Not the same thing in the final analysis. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[KarmaInferno]

No, it fails because it says it fails. I even quoted the rule. There is no indication that the cause of the attack failure is due to having no stun track.

The "no stun track" is a separate thing.

Seriously. Read the entire chapter. There's no link between the two rules, aside from them both being in the "vehicle attributes" section.




-k

[sabs]

no stun track, means that you can shoot sns rounds all you want at it, and they'll never do damage. Even if you manage to do more damage than the armor. (which isn't hard at 1/2 armor)

[Elfenlied]

no stun track, means that you can shoot sns rounds all you want at it, and they'll never do damage. Even if you manage to do more damage than the armor. (which isn't hard at 1/2 armor)

Except that electricity still has a special effect on vehicles.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

No, it fails because it says it fails. I even quoted the rule. There is no indication that the cause of the attack failure is due to having no stun track.

The "no stun track" is a separate thing.

Seriously. Read the entire chapter. There's no link between the two rules, aside from them both being in the "vehicle attributes" section.

-k

Seriously. Read the Entire Chapter. Nowhere does it say that Vehicles have Hardened Armor.

At this point, however, we are arguing Semantics. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[KarmaInferno]

My points are

A) It makes no sense why people are always so quick to say "it's not really hardened armor!" when really, it is. Just not in name.

B) The "no stun" is a separate rule.

That is all.

I never claimed vehicles have actual Hardened Armor. I stated multiple times that the vehicle armor wasn't actually named "hardened armor", but it acts like hardened armor. So there really is no good reason for folks to keep insisting that it isn't, other to be pedantic.

Honestly, the books should have just called it Hardened Armor to begin with - having two identical rules with different names is silly.




-k

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

My points are

...

Honestly, the books should have just called it Hardened Armor to begin with - having two identical rules with different names is silly.

-k

As I said, Semantics. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)