What do you mean you can't drive the get away car? Options

[Daddy's Litt...]

I was wondering if we should not take it as a given all runners drive or have access to learn. In RL American culture most people in the suburbs, the prime market for RPG's and rural areas drive because of status and need. But a lot of city people do not drive. They do not need too. I went to college in Brooklyn and never needed a car once except to move in ando ut of dorms. I used mass transit.

In SR land corp employees would have even less need to driving if they live on corp property. So would it be a given that runners would be able to learn a skill like that? Might it not be more common, especially for street level gangs, that they do not know how to drive or that the guy who can drive is special, maybe as special as a spell caster. "Geek the mage?" "Nah, shoot the guy in the green shirt." "Ok" -splat-
"Holy frag they shot Phred.'"
"So?"
"Phred was the only one with a licence!"
"Run away!"

[Tanegar]

There are a number of skills that should be more-or-less standard, when you think about it. If everyone has a commlink, then everyone should have Computer 1 and Data Search 1, at minimum. Everyone (metahumans, anyway) knows the basics of Etiquette (1). Everyone knows how to look for things (Perception 1). I'm sure convincing arguments could be made for others.

[Miri]

Driving would be a common skill. Most everyone can drive or tell the autopilot/gridguide where to go. Its when the situation starts getting "fluid" that it gets difficult and thats when you need ranks in the skill, which can simulate broad knowledge or previous experience.

[EKBT81]

Whether driving is a common skill would depend on the location IMHO. Certainly in rural North America, probably in Seattle, too. Hong Kong or Tokyo, not so much.

[Yerameyahu]

I think the idea is that most of those skills are fully functional for 'non-critical' or 'non-stressful' actions, at Rating 0. As long as you don't have Rating X.

[PoliteMan]

As I understand it, every shadowrunner can drive (or as much "driving" as Gridguide requires)

Driving a getaway car is a different story. Being able to drive the car in combat, drive through gunfire and explosions, pull a 180 at top speeds, those are all things you need special training or skills for.

I'd say most runners could drive to a meet, drive home at the end of the day, and typically display the same driving skills you or I possess. Start shooting at them, however, or put them in difficult situations and they're likely to crash, just like you or I.

[Yerameyahu]

Indeed, for the first part. Now, since we're talking about *runners*, they probably have at *least* Pilot Ground 1, plus a solid Reaction. They can handle at least minor difficulty without crashing (if, again, they're shadowrunners who drive themselves places).

[suoq]

Defaulting, PG 121 SR4A for doing things you don't have a skill in.

I'm not sure how it currently is, but once upon a time, it was common to come of age in New York and not have a driver's license. I've heard similar comments about London. I still know people who arrange their lives around public transportation, walking, bike riding, and the occasional taxi or lift from a friend.

To deal with some of the others:
Computer and Data Search: There are plenty of luddites and people who apparently can't even use google, even today. I see no reason for that to change.
Everyone (metahumans, anyway) knows the basics of Etiquette: If everyone knows the basics of Etiquette in your town, I want to go to your town's movie theaters.
Everyone knows how to look for things: And some people really suck at it. That's why they default at -1.

There are common skills I don't have. It takes me 2 days to replace a faucet. I've just spent 6+ hours just fixing my dryer's exhaust pipe. I should be banned from the use of any power tool other than a dremel and a drill. Whomever is running me as a character refuses to spend the karma on getting me Repair:1. I've been repairing this house for 15 years and I still suck at it. By Yerameyahu's logic, I should be capable by now. I'm not.

[Daddy's Litt...]

Well they could tell a car where to go but maybe not take control of the car and start a get away.

Wasn't there some Arnold movie where he gets into a cab and yells at the computer "Drive! Drive!" as bullets start flying and the computer cheerfully says "I'm not familiar with that address."

Street people might have eittiquette and unarmed combat skills long before they get behind the wheels of a car. I was looking at the news reports of kids in Philadelphia running wild in packs. Lots of crime and stuff but no get away car. A group went to a suburban mall and seemed surprised when they got caught.

[CanRay]

Total Recall. Johnny Cab. Hilarious character. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[SpellBinder]

When it comes to handling firearms, how many street people know more than "point the barrel & squeeze the trigger"? (Ref SR4a, page 119, that's rating 0)

Now when it comes to unarmed combat, maybe rating one ("Been in a few fist fights.").

As for telling the car where to go, don't forget to have edited the car's pilot program first as the first cue from a police siren and it's pulling over because "it's the law". Even if that doesn't happen right away, it's only gonna go the speed limit (figure ~40kph in city limits) because "it's the law". Don't think you can be a good wheel man if you let the car do the driving for you.

[CanRay]

And people laugh at the idea of Redneck Shadowrunners.

Who's laughing now?

[Sengir]

But a lot of city people do not drive. They do not need too. I went to college in Brooklyn and never needed a car once except to move in ando ut of dorms. I used mass transit.

In SR land corp employees would have even less need to driving if they live on corp property. So would it be a given that runners would be able to learn a skill like that?

Interesting line of thought I must say. With all the megasprawls the need to drive has surely declined, and a lot of people will simply no longer be able to afford a car.

On the other hand, every vehicle has at least Pilot 1. Four dice (Pilot 1 + Response/Device Rating 3) when faced with unexpected behavior is not much, but for going from A to B and stopping for pedestrians it should suffice. Using a Pilot which drives like a 70-year-old might even be an advantage for getaways, because a behaviour recognition would only register another commuter car with R 1 Pilot...

[CanRay]

I don't know, I've known about some 70-year olds that scared even my Redneck buddies in their driving habits...

[Sengir]

I don't know, I've known about some 70-year olds that scared even my Redneck buddies in their driving habits...

I know my grandma...and I've seen her insurance premiums...

But I was more thinking along the lines of the stereotypical overly careful OAP at the wheel (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Aerospider]

Indeed, for the first part. Now, since we're talking about *runners*, they probably have at *least* Pilot Ground 1, plus a solid Reaction. They can handle at least minor difficulty without crashing (if, again, they're shadowrunners who drive themselves places).

Most RPGs are designed to accommodate a wide variety of character concepts and few more so than SR, so I'd say there are few assumptions one can make about runners. Given that, like most cinematic crime teams, runners tend to form groups of specialists in order to cover all the bases it's more likely in theory and in practice that at most two runners in a given team will have any ranks in a one-man job like Pilot Groundcraft.

[Sengir]

Most RPGs are designed to accommodate a wide variety of character concepts and few more so than SR, so I'd say there are few assumptions one can make about runners. Given that, like most cinematic crime teams, runners tend to form groups of specialists in order to cover all the bases it's more likely in theory and in practice that at most two runners in a given team will have any ranks in a one-man job like Pilot Groundcraft.

At least in my experience, a team vehicle is as classic "I thought YOU would be taking care of that" item (unless somebody's character concept automatically makes him designated driver).

Sure, they are specialists - that's why lowly tasks like driving to the job can be done by $SOMEONE.

[CanRay]

All else fails, get the Rigger to drive. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[nezumi]

Seems reasonable as an idea. Indeed, even with a vehicle, most people won't need more than to plug the address into gridguide. I like the current setup, but for themed campaigns, taking away the default of 'you can operate a vehicle' makes sense. For individual characters, I'm sure there's a flaw that could apply.

[Aerospider]

All else fails, get the Rigger to drive. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

That's the stupid thing about the team I've got at the moment - the rigger took the quality that reduces one's resistance to biofeedback and then decided that because of this he's never going to jump in. I spent hours crafting a chase scene (adapting the chase combat rules to make them actually fun) and he didn't even start the engine because the target's car looked too fast for him. I'm dreading the day he gives his blimp attachment a try ...

[CanRay]

Buh-Huh? A Rigger that doesn't Rig? Now I've seen everything!

[Aerospider]

Seems reasonable as an idea. Indeed, even with a vehicle, most people won't need more than to plug the address into gridguide. I like the current setup, but for themed campaigns, taking away the default of 'you can operate a vehicle' makes sense. For individual characters, I'm sure there's a flaw that could apply.

That would be Incompetent (Pilot Groundcraft).

[Aerospider]

Buh-Huh? A Rigger that doesn't Rig? Now I've seen everything!

He shelled out for a control rig too ...

[DamienKnight]

There are a number of skills that should be more-or-less standard, when you think about it. If everyone has a commlink, then everyone should have Computer 1 and Data Search 1, at minimum.

Interfaces are so intuitive in the present that many learn to get what they need from their iphone without ever getting any special skills that would translate from one device to another.

A computer skill of 1 means you have that skill with EVERY device. This means you have had experience with a plethora of devices, and have a basic understanding. I suspect many people dont have a computer skill of one. Just go read a list of the top ten stupid questions that Technical Support people get... people are clueless!

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

And people laugh at the idea of Redneck Shadowrunners.

Who's laughing now?

In third edition, we had an Elf Assassin who relied totally upon the public transit system. Nothing funnier than the Elf taking the Bus to and from the hit. Of course, who would ever think to check the Bus for an Assassin? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)