Revitalisation Therapy, What purpose does it serve? Options

[Laesin]

If I'm reading this right, revitalisation repairs essence holes but does not restore magic, resonance, max magic or max resonance. With this in mind why would any shadowrunner bother? An Essence hole would be better filled with new cyber or bioware. Indeed any technomancers or awakened would be worse off for using this as they could in the long term end up paying a second point of magic for the same expenditure of essence. I have to be missing something here.

[Ascalaphus]

They might have lost the Essence, but intend to buy back the lost Magic/Resonance at some point. For example, really severe Addiction can cost Essence loss, which also can't be used as a "hole" for 'ware. And some critter powers cause Essence loss.

[Laesin]

Fair point on the addiction/critter power thing, but it really doesn't help with the buying back magic or resonance. Regardless of regaining the essence your magic cap is forever reduced.

[suoq]

Ascalaphus: While I thought along the same lines, reading the rules for it, it appears that it only works on the essence loss of implants, not on Essence Drain or other causes. Eventually, I decided it was just more rules that would never really come into play. Filler.

[Laesin]

Second thought, marginal at best and unlikely to come up in play, is a character that has upgraded their cyber to Deltaware, is happy with what he has, and would quite like to reduce the penalties his magician buddy suffers to alleviate that sudden onset lead poisoning.

[Ascalaphus]

Wow, you're right. That's really freaky.

I guess then the only use is because nominally, you have separate Bioware and Cyberware Essence Holes that interact strangely. But it looks like a broken rule.

[hermit]

What purpose does it serve?

To prolong the usablity of blood donor slaves to emogoth cliché vampire PC they wrote good bits of RC for.

[Ascalaphus]

To prolong the usablity of blood donor slaves to emogoth cliché vampire PC they wrote good bits of RC for.

...except it only heals Essence loss caused by 'ware...

[hermit]

...except it only heals Essence loss caused by 'ware...

Ah, which one was that then, Rejuvenation? It's not an often used rule.

[HunterHerne]

...except it only heals Essence loss caused by 'ware...

No, it doesn't.

Though Essence points lost to implantation,
Energy Drain, and addiction may be restored through
gene therapy, Magic/Resonance points lost are never returned and
reductions to the maximum Magic/Resonance attribute remain
in effect.

Augmentation, 89

[Ascalaphus]

Excuse me. Forgot to go to the next page..

Anyway, that bit about reduction to maximum magic/resonance is weird.

If you were at 4.9 Essence, got treated up to 5, then lost 0.1 Essence again, your maximum would have been reduced twice!

AFAIK, there isn't any hidden "maximum magic" stat; it's just Essence+Initiation (rounded down).

[Badmoodguy88]

AFAIK, there isn't any hidden "maximum magic" stat; it's just Essence+Initiation (rounded down).

I am with you on that but some people think it is like initiation behaves like a bonus to stats. So up to one half times your base stat. Or natural starting max of 6. I don't agree with that.

[Ascalaphus]

By the book, (Initiation <= Magic), and (Magic <= Essence+Initiation). As long as your (Essence >= 1), you can cycle back and forth between increasing Magic and Initiation. If your Essence goes below 1, you can't grow anymore.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Ascalaphus: While I thought along the same lines, reading the rules for it, it appears that it only works on the essence loss of implants, not on Essence Drain or other causes. Eventually, I decided it was just more rules that would never really come into play. Filler.

But it would work for those who have an Essence below 1, that wanted to get an Essence Above 1, so that they could later Awaken or Emerge. Latent Awakening and Latent Emergence work off of your Current Essence at the moment of Awakening or Emergence. You must have an Essence above 1 when that happens, or your Awakening/Emergence fizzles and you remain mundane. Besides, having More Essence is good. It is a Fluff thing, but there you go. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[KCKitsune]

By the book, (Initiation <= Magic), and (Magic <= Essence+Initiation). As long as your (Essence >= 1), you can cycle back and forth between increasing Magic and Initiation. If your Essence goes below 1, you can't grow anymore.

I would say that if your Essence goes below 1, then you're screwed Magically. I would have the mage is now a mundane.

[Hida Tsuzua]

Excuse me. Forgot to go to the next page..

Anyway, that bit about reduction to maximum magic/resonance is weird.

If you were at 4.9 Essence, got treated up to 5, then lost 0.1 Essence again, your maximum would have been reduced twice!

AFAIK, there isn't any hidden "maximum magic" stat; it's just Essence+Initiation (rounded down).

It's actually kindof weird after I went though the books again. Magic has a natural maximum rating that starts at 6. Initiation raises the natural maximum (SR4A 198). For every point of Essence lost (round up), you lose 1 point of magic and the natural maximum goes down by 1 (SR4A 177). Revitalization doesn't reduce the essence lost for this calculation.

If you look at it "total Essence lost added together rounded up to the nearest whole number" and not when your floor (nearest whole number round down) of your Essence score lowers, then in your example your magic won't be reduced twice. Instead your Essence lost goes from 1.1 to 1.2 and your maximum remains unchanged.

Honestly, I can see it argued either way and the difference is quite academic (since who gets revitalization anyways?). I like the Essence lost way more. But then again I've always been on the easier on the Essence Loss side of things. For example, my long-running opinion that there shouldn't be essence holes and that Essence should just come back naturally though with magic/resonance loss staying the same.

[Mäx]

If I'm reading this right, revitalisation repairs essence holes but does not restore magic, resonance, max magic or max resonance. With this in mind why would any shadowrunner bother? An Essence hole would be better filled with new cyber or bioware. Indeed any technomancers or awakened would be worse off for using this as they could in the long term end up paying a second point of magic for the same expenditure of essence. I have to be missing something here.

You need it if you want to change from cyber- to bioware, as the essence hole is separate for both.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

You need it if you want to change from cyber- to bioware, as the essence hole is separate for both.

Not any longer...

[Mäx]

Not any longer...

Care the elaborate a little, i kinda expected that to be a link or somethink (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Ascalaphus]

I remember a very long discussion about the Essence hole. It was very funky, growing and decreasing depending on the balance between cyberware and bioware (because the lesser one gets halved).

[Mäx]

I remember a very long discussion about the Essence hole. It was very funky, growing and decreasing depending on the balance between cyberware and bioware (because the lesser one gets halved).

That one is based on bad reading of the essence hole rules(possibly deliberate).
There is no funky thinks happening with essence hole, as the hole is always kept in the calculation.
So for excample you have 3 essence points worth of cyberware and 2,5 essence worth of bioware your essence loss is 3+1,25=4,25.
If you remove one points worth of cyberware, you have a 1 essence point cyberware hole, this doesn't have any effect on your essence loss, if you then get a point worth of Bioware for total of 3,5 your essence loss increases to 3,5+1,5=5, this also has no effect on how big your cyberessence hole is, its still the size of 1 essence.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Care the elaborate a little, i kinda expected that to be a link or somethink (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

There is... I will have to locate it for you. Give me a bit... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Found it... At least the one I can find anyways.
German Errata for Augmentation states: "The German printing states that "Essence holes" from implants are universal, I.E. bioware can fill a hole left by cyberware and vice-versa.

Not American RAW, but there you go...

[Halinn]

There is... I will have to locate it for you. Give me a bit... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Found it... At least the one I can find anyways.
German Errata for Augmentation states: "The German printing states that "Essence holes" from implants are universal, I.E. bioware can fill a hole left by cyberware and vice-versa.

Not American RAW, but there you go...

Urge to destroy Germany... rising...

[JanessaVR]

There is... I will have to locate it for you. Give me a bit... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Found it... At least the one I can find anyways.
German Errata for Augmentation states: "The German printing states that "Essence holes" from implants are universal, I.E. bioware can fill a hole left by cyberware and vice-versa.

Not American RAW, but there you go...

Imminently reasonable, that’s our rule as well. If you’ve already got an Essence “hole” and remove what caused that loss, you can – for a limited time only! – replace that part with a part of equal or lesser value for no further Essence loss. Free set of ginsu knives included for the first 50 callers, offer void where prohibited.

Alternately, if you remove the ‘ware and revitalize the “hole”, you can buy back your natural Magic rating to a higher level (up to your current Essence rating).

But again, that’s our house rules. YMMV.

[Rubic]

Urge to destroy Germany... rising...

heh, a little late to Start the Riot... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)