Are Humans unpowered?, Why play them? Options

[stu_pie]

One of my players asked me why would you pick to play as a human, and only reasons I could think of was

1)You fit in better, fewer people hate you
2)Save you a few BP (though not that true as with other Matetypes you seem to gain more attributes then their BP cost)

But honestly the 1st point doesnt really seem that great and the 2nd point also seems bit dumb as your likely to spend points on your attributes, so playing any of the other metatypes seems to make more sense.

I'm sure this has been raised before, but what could humans get to make them worth playing (some kind of bonus?)? Or least why do you guys think their worth playing?

[MYST1C]

I'm sure this has been raised before, but what could humans get to make them worth playing (some kind of bonus?)? Or least why do you guys think their worth playing?

My reason for usually playing humans is not crunch but fluff: I prefer playing humans. I come from a rather old-school cyberpunk background and tend to downplay the magic aspect of the SR world in games I run. Hence, my own characters are usually mundane humans.

[Faraday]

1. More edge. A lot of people underestimate edge, mostly because they haven't invested in it. Unlike most attributes, edge's bonus is not linear. It provides not only more uses, but more powerful ones.
2. Most other metas don't have a significant amount of mental stats increased, or even have lowered ones. Humans excel in builds where you need good mental attributes but don't have a great need for physical ones. Mages, hackers, riggers, faces, technomancers, and even adepts/street sams focused on reaction and dodge are quite powerful.
3. Humans are much more powerful by comparison when built in (german rules) karmagen. The karma saved by not paying for race allows for a lot of skills/resources.

[Medicineman]

1. More edge. A lot of people underestimate edge, mostly because they haven't invested in it. Unlike most attributes, edge's bonus is not linear. It provides not only more uses, but more powerful ones.

Exactly (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
+1
Mr Lucky (Edge 8 ) really Rocks

with a Dance on the Edge
Medicineman

[SpellBinder]

What Faraday said, and IIRC humans are the most common metatype of the five and suffer the least prejudices in most cases (the latter being a more important case for one of my players).

Now if you really wanna surprise your players, throw in a human who's an elf/ork poser and a respectable Con skill rating. Heck, you could even use a changeling with neoteny who's a bit husky and claiming to be a dwarf (beards are typical, not the norm). See what their reactions are when they find out that the poser's really a [normal?] human.

[Aerospider]

One of my players asked me why would you pick to play as a human, and only reasons I could think of was

1)You fit in better, fewer people hate you
2)Save you a few BP (though not that true as with other Matetypes you seem to gain more attributes then their BP cost)

But honestly the 1st point doesnt really seem that great and the 2nd point also seems bit dumb as your likely to spend points on your attributes, so playing any of the other metatypes seems to make more sense.

I'm sure this has been raised before, but what could humans get to make them worth playing (some kind of bonus?)? Or least why do you guys think their worth playing?

Try thinking about all the non-mechanical aspects about your character first. I consider that the numbers add a game to roleplaying, as opposed to the concept adding roleplaying to a game. YMMV.

[Hagga]

1. More edge. A lot of people underestimate edge, mostly because they haven't invested in it. Unlike most attributes, edge's bonus is not linear. It provides not only more uses, but more powerful ones.
2. Most other metas don't have a significant amount of mental stats increased, or even have lowered ones. Humans excel in builds where you need good mental attributes but don't have a great need for physical ones. Mages, hackers, riggers, faces, technomancers, and even adepts/street sams focused on reaction and dodge are quite powerful.
3. Humans are much more powerful by comparison when built in (german rules) karmagen. The karma saved by not paying for race allows for a lot of skills/resources.

-Is there a translated version of the german rules out there? I'd sort of like to see them. Without learning German.

[Medicineman]

Errataed(German )Rules say that You pay Attribute x5 and You pay Karmapoints = Buildingpoints for Metarace

with errataed Dance
Medicineman

[Faraday]

Errataed(German )Rules say that You pay Attribute x5 and You pay Karmapoints = Buildingpoints for Metarace

with errataed Dance
Medicineman

Funny that those two things make such a huge difference, but they do. I remember Metatype=BP*2, but that's probably just me.

[Amazeroth]

Funny that those two things make such a huge difference, but they do. I remember Metatype=BP*2, but that's probably just me.

Yeah. After the errata the orcs are the master race when building with karmagen (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
20 karma for body 4 and str 3? nice (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[CanRay]

How about the ability to blend in? Still more humans than other metatypes. And if you're in a city that is policed by Lone Star, well, they still have a (Earned) reputation for being racist bastards.

Also, Japan. Just, Japan. Even Gaijin Norms are treated better than even native Metatypes.

[Faraday]

Yeah. After the errata the orcs are the master race when building with karmagen (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
20 karma for body 4 and str 3? nice (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Don't forget the penalties to logic and charisma. And trolls get 5 bod/str for 40 karma, an even better deal.
I actually recall that ork costs were dropped in back when 4th ed came out while elves were made more pricey, apparently the game designers didn't want everyone going elf.
Typically, I have elves and orks cost the same as dwarves, with trolls staying at their current cost.

How about the ability to blend in? Still more humans than other metatypes. And if you're in a city that is policed by Lone Star, well, they still have a (Earned) reputation for being racist bastards.

Also, Japan. Just, Japan. Even Gaijin Norms are treated better than even native Metatypes.

Human looking: 5 BP
I might note that lonestar has a LOT of prison contracts as well. If you're a human on the inside, it's a bad day. If you're an apparent meta, it's a worse day.

[Elfenlied]

Don't forget the penalties to logic and charisma.

Which doesn't matter jack squat in Karmagen (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Ascalaphus]

For hackers/riggers, mages not on a Charisma Tradition, the other metatypes don't really give any bonuses to write home about.

Then there's the racism thing; humans have an easier time of it.

Edge is nice.



But maybe the big one is simply: some people don't want to play a non-human. They like being the human, perhaps even enjoying the feeling of being the "underdog".

[Brainpiercing7.6...]

I agree basically humans mostly have edge going for them. Not that much else.

I see it as an evolution in the game: Last edition it was dwarves, but at least there was a reason not to play one (you were slow as fuck). Orcs just don't live long and get social stigma. Duh, fluff. I also don't see a lot of fluff difference between humans, orcs and elves - they are basically very similar, and I don't need to change my character mentality for playing either. Now trolls are different, due to their size, mainly.

Mostly when I build characters I assign all the stats and then switch races around to find which one is cheapest, and orcs usually win. It's just the body that does it - if body wasn't required to wear armour and generally not die...

[LurkerOutThere]

For me there is a huge fluff difference between an Orc and a Human fluff wise. A Orc unless they goblinized late is almost certainly a member of a large family due to the litter factor. Less likely they might have grown up in poverty although that might be the norm for a lot of metahumans.

Elves your fighting a lot of cultural stigma/expectations as well as the fact that a lot of people resent you for damn good reason based on what your elf centric nation states have done.

[Ascalaphus]

I think the game developers actually did a very good job of balancing the races. Not every person will want to play every race, but for every race, there's enough people who like them and want to play them.

[Thanee]

If you consider bioelectrics, it could be said, that humans are, in fact, powered. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Bye
Thanee

[Ascalaphus]

If you consider bioelectrics, it could be said, that humans are, in fact, powered. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Bye
Thanee

Gaaaah!

[suoq]

I suddenly have this incredible desire to play an undercover reporter for humanis showing how destructive metahuman shadowrunners are.....

He'd insert himself on a shadowrunner team, record everything, and then leave them cursing his sudden, but inevitable, betrayal.

[Thanee]

I think the game developers actually did a very good job of balancing the races. Not every person will want to play every race, but for every race, there's enough people who like them and want to play them.

There are way too many people who want to play trolls, though (considering how rare they are supposed to be).

Same with awakened characters, of course. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

And then there are all those weird races from Runner's Companion...

Bye
Thanee

[Ascalaphus]

I don't think a statistically representative distribution of PC types to setting is really to be expected in any RPG - and not even a good thing!

We want to play exceptional people, we don't want to play representative people (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)



As for trolls: I actually don't really like them. They're an expensive race, and unless you really have a use for Strength 5+, you're paying for something you don't need. Add to that the lower caps on mental Attributes, and they become a very poor choice for non-Sam characters. I think it's a shame that they're so geared to be one-trick ponies.

The other four races all have some bonuses to Attributes that just pull them up to average ratings, for no great cost. If you play an Ork or Dwarf, and have no special interest in Body or Strength, you just leave it at the racial minimum and spend those BPs on something else. If your Elf doesn't need more than 3 Charisma, well, you just leave it at 3 and you're a reasonably personable member of society without additional BP. But as a Troll, you're committed to going physical, because you're capped low at everything else.

I guess trolls are just specialized for a role that doesn't interest me all that much (physical combatant)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Which doesn't matter jack squat in Karmagen (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Doesn't matter for BP builds either... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

Didn't we do this already? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) If they're underpowered, it's not by enough to matter anyway.

[Nebular]

I don't see why it matters. Playing a game and a character isn't about having the highest possible numbers, it's about having fun. Some of the funnest characters I've played have been the most screwed-up, mixed-up, and randomly-built things I threw together (or ended up developing thanks to the mind-warping powers in Call of Cthulhu). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)