[X] My Assistant

[Traul]

I can see your point, but if such a functionality is required:

1) there is no reason to link it with modes. Active, Passive and Hidden are privacy settings. What happens in case of network threat in a high-security area? You switch to Passive and get arrested for not broadcasting your SIN?

2) it has to be automated. You are talking about a handful of geeks duct-taping the net by hand in heroic times. The Matrix is a world-wide network connecting billions of users. It might be a bit optimistic to trust the users to detect when something is going wrong and decide to switch to Passive. Routers themselves would be concerned too, and they do not have a user to tell them to switch modes.

3) it has to be dynamic. If your example was transposed into the Matrix, switching to Passive would not have helped at all because the failure came from one of the trusted nodes, so it would have been in all the white lists. The key was to identify the threat and remove it from the routing tables. The typical Matrix user would just have been helpless.

4) such network-wide threats do not exist per RAW. There are a lot of possible attacks on nodes but no way to mess with the mesh itself, apart from area jamming. Nodes can be taken down, the mesh cannot. MSPs do provide access points, but those have no effect in game: everyone enjoys the same matrix connectivity whether they have an MSP or not (in urban areas at least). If the mesh structure was less dense with dedicated routers, then it should be possible to isolate any area by attacking its routers. Botnets provide the power to attack multiple targets at once.

[LurkerOutThere]

I think a more productive item at this point would be splitting a thread on what service to MSP's actually provide.

[Yerameyahu]

Why? It's in the book. They provide email addresses, cloud storage, cruddy programs. The're Google.

[LurkerOutThere]

I guess because even though I know it's not realistic a part of my mind just rebels at the thought of how the SR4 matrix system works without making runners (and everyoen else) basicly traceable all the time. Just the simple act of making sure you can receive phone calls would make you trace bait.

[Yerameyahu]

That's in the books, too. You don't need an MSP at all, nor the convenient commcodes they do provide. Also, there are shadow MSPs and disposable commcodes.

[Redjack]

Just the simple act of making sure you can receive phone calls would make you trace bait.

This was the second part of my thinking that brought up the whole hidden nodes are not connected to the matrix. Once your go passive, triangulation from towers should be able to lock down your position pretty tightly. This brings me back to the repeater drone I had posed some questions about several weeks ago.

Also, there are shadow MSPs and disposable commcodes.

This solves one of the big corps being able to directly get you, as long as the shadow MSP you use isn't actually owned by the corp you're running against once all the shell companies are squeezed out of the middle. Ah... the possibilities for corporate subterfuge are endless to the devious GM.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

And that's the fun of Shadowrun. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Traul]

I guess because even though I know it's not realistic a part of my mind just rebels at the thought of how the SR4 matrix system works without making runners (and everyoen else) basicly traceable all the time. Just the simple act of making sure you can receive phone calls would make you trace bait.

Maybe there are no routing tables and routes are always computed on the fly? It could make sense: given the dynamic structure of the mesh, routes should not last long, so better not bother until you actually need them. So no one makes sure that you can receive calls until someone tries to call you. But that does not change much: someone who wants to track you just has to send you a message and follow the route it takes.

[suoq]

While I see runners as being traceable, I see the issue being, "Which one of the billions(?) of commlinks on the mesh do we trace?".

Personal setup I'm sure the GM will grill me on sometime in the home campaign:
Mr. Johnson gets the disposable commlink if he wants to leave messages. That commlink is left off except when I want to check messages. When the job is done, the commlink gets burned. Yes, it's traceable, but not easily and only during the job and only if Mr. Johnson says he needs a way to contact us in-mission.

Fake ID commlink. The commlink that says, "Yes, I'm Emmanuel Goldstein". Active in active areas, passive in passive areas unless I'm building more fake id data, off on a run, nothing unusual except a decent firewall. Yes, it's traceable, but if they're trying to trace Emmanuel Goldstein, I've already screwed up horribly.

The Job Commlink. The one running the tacsoft, the hacker software, etc. Hidden constantly. The bad news is that there's this expectation that fixers can call me 24/7 and they might as well use this phone since it's the one my PAN is on. If this is the one being traced then I've screwed up on-the-job.

Assumptions:
1) This isn't Missions where Mr Johnson and his daughter and the people you're running away from all get your commlink number by fiat.
2) There's a messaging service. If Mr. Johnson needs to be able to contact me live 24/7 we'll as a group talk about opsec and comfort levels and how much we trust Mr. Johnson.
3) The firewall on the Job Commlink is already doing stuff to make this commlink as untraceable as possible and swapping out hardware and giving fixers a new number every week isn't worth it. If I should have a fixer only commlink, I'm cool with that and can make the investment. Every way I work it, the fixer's need to contact my job persona seems to be the hole in the defense.

[Redjack]

The firewall is doing stuff to protect the com, not make it un-traceable.

That said, I think this goes to the conversation about what does an MSP do for you (re:messaging service)? MSPs, legit or shadow, can offer drop boxes for messages, etc. From your single com, you have accounts with a dozen MSPs, each one with a separate *identity*. You fixer contacts you via your account with MSP #1, Mom & family via MSP#2, your street contact via MSP#3, etc.

I agree that only in the most extreme circumstances is someone going to try to track you down to your com via your connections to the matrix and even then 99.9999% will simply not be able to do it. As a counter to that, I see another service provided by shadow MSPs is to proxy your calls so that in the example above, if your fixed had the connections and inclination to burn you, his trace leads to a node in Paris, France despite the fact you are sitting 3 blocks down the street from him.

[Mardrax]

Proxy services are a separate service from MSPs, as detailed in Unwired.

[LurkerOutThere]

I think the one thing people are failing to connect on here is in this setting hacking is explicitly possible. If i get someones comcode I just start hacking the MSP's. How hard that is likely depends on your GM but I have a really hard time envisioning most individual MSP nodes higher then a 6, eight at the highest so it's just a matter of time and trouble to breach a runners MSP network once you get their comcode

Personally because as a player I'm very interested in Hackers/technos in games information security starts to come up a lot. Now there are certain playability changes that needs to be made, the threshold 15 to find all hidden nodes kinda needs to be modified, but other then that I think there is a fun aspect of the game to explore there.

[Yerameyahu]

But, again, commcodes aren't a requirement. That's just another part of the fun (really!) quagmire of the matrix.

[LurkerOutThere]

True, the same could be said for access ID, if someone pulls the access ID on your device while your sitting at a cafe they can essentially track you physically until you change ID's.

[Redjack]

Proxy services are a separate service from MSPs, as detailed in Unwired.

But it is a service that could/can be provided by a shadow MSP.

I think the one thing people are failing to connect on here is in this setting hacking is explicitly possible.

Agreed. Kind of like the real world: You can have the best security in the world, be a security consultant to the NSA and have a group of hackers post your email and source code all over the Internet.. Then months later, the FBI raids members of that same hacking group.

[Traul]

I think the one thing people are failing to connect on here is in this setting hacking is explicitly possible. If i get someones comcode I just start hacking the MSP's. How hard that is likely depends on your GM but I have a really hard time envisioning most individual MSP nodes higher then a 6, eight at the highest so it's just a matter of time and trouble to breach a runners MSP network once you get their comcode

Assuming you run the kind of setup suoq described, if they got your comcode, then they got your fixer. Hacking the MSP might then not be easier than just setting a trap appointment in the meat or in the matrix.

[Mardrax]

I'd think them getting your primary comcode would lead to more anguish than being physically trackable. I'd start worrying about how much of your conversations, or at least call history, they've logged. Not to mention e-mail and whatnot.

[Redjack]

I'd think them getting your primary comcode would lead to more anguish than being physically trackable. I'd start worrying about how much of your conversations, or at least call history, they've logged. Not to mention e-mail and whatnot.

Last time my table-top group played, one of the players got their com hacked. She was on team net. The team found out after the hacker decided to try and take over the rigger's com, but tripped the firewall. Needless to say, they had been wondering how the bad guys had been one step ahead of them... Sadly for them, the opposition had already traced them to their safehouse. Pretty easy when you can access the GPS on the com. Everyone upgraded firewalls and analyze programs after that run.

[LurkerOutThere]

I'm trying to nudge my team towards the line of thought that the hackers role in protecting the teams data is just as important (or at least as worthy of a little forethought) as the sam's and the mages in protecting their meat and their spirit. I'm going to houserule a few things to make it easier but i think it will improve the game. Should in theory make the ahcker more able to umbrella protect a team slaved up to him/her.

[Redjack]

The hacker realized that he fell down on the job and the team (playfully) let him know it.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Personally because as a player I'm very interested in Hackers/technos in games information security starts to come up a lot. Now there are certain playability changes that needs to be made, the threshold 15 to find all hidden nodes kinda needs to be modified, but other then that I think there is a fun aspect of the game to explore there.

Never forget that the Threshold STARTS at 15, it doesn't end there. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smokin.gif)