[X] My Assistant

[LurkerOutThere]

Do they actually state that batteries last for a long time? It's left deliciously vague. Part of the problemw e're seeing now is even though battery technology has made huge leaps just in the past 5 years the amount of crap we're cramming onto devices is increasing at an even greater rate. At some point presumably in the SR universe they'll likely have to decide what amount of uptime their willing to accept on a device. This could easily explain the difference in allowed number of users/icons on a comlink vs a nexus. I'm just positing out loud at this point now.

[KarmaInferno]

Eh. I think at this point we're focusing on unimportant details. Batteries are irrelevant, really, they're just a convenient excuse why something stopped working. It could be due to a thousand other things. It really doesn't matter. The thing stopped working. Either it's a temporary thing in case of a regular glitch, or maybe permanently for a critical glitch.

As I said before, batteries in SR last as long as Plot.




-k

[Blitz66]

Battery life isn't spelled out, but energy efficiency must be crazy in 2070. Didn't they say that cyberware is biopowered now?

[Yerameyahu]

Tru dat, Blitz. Actually, the peak-discharge laser 'batteries' have already been mentioned. From that, you could work out roughly how much energy they store… it's a hell of a lot.

Yes, I know that the point is 'something stopped working'. I'm *only* saying that 'you forgot to charge/didn't notice it was low' isn't the right fluff for that. That's retroactive bunnying, altering history *and* playing their character for them; why do that, when 'crap, something shorts out!' is available? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[suoq]

I believe that the sort of person who will complain about glitch A will complain about glitch B.

[Aku]

maybe a ghost passed by and caused sudden battery drain?

[Draco18s]

maybe a ghost passed by and caused sudden battery drain?

Except that in SR it's well known that ghosts don't exist and that spirits can't effect the material plane unless materialized.

[Blitz66]

Except that in SR it's well known that ghosts don't exist and that spirits can't effect the material plane unless materialized.

Well-known... or not proven incorrect yet, due to the insufficient nature of modern methods? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

Tune in next week while our daring crew investigates a really creepy place, and we'll make YOU a believer!

[Rubic]

Except that in SR it's well known that ghosts don't exist and that spirits can't effect the material plane unless materialized.

It's been posited in-universe for SR that there's no substantial difference between certain Spirits of Man and the respective people they represent.

Edit: Not to mention the possible origins of Shedim (which we do not conclusively know).

[sabs]

Well, and if you accept War as being canon.. then there are ghosts :/

[Fatum]

There are ghosts in Running Wild, page 178.

[Fikealox]

I think Draco's point wasn't so much that there aren't ghosts, but that ghosts aren't exempt from the materialisation requirement of other spirits because they're spirits (be they spirits of man, imprinted wild spirits, or something else). Of course, I could be wrong! It's all a bit OT anyway (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Draco18s]

I think Draco's point wasn't so much that there aren't ghosts, but that ghosts aren't exempt from the materialisation requirement of other spirits because they're spirits (be they spirits of man, imprinted wild spirits, or something else). Of course, I could be wrong! It's all a bit OT anyway (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This.
(Although I will admit that "ghost" as a critter wasn't in my knowledge. I have a copy of Running Wild, but I haven't actually LOOKED at it)

[Zoot]

The reason everyone and their dog ignores it is because either a) it never happens (trolltanks are never knocked over*) or b) characters never get to stand up (2 body characters taking 2 boxes of stun fall over).

When adding in Gel ammo (adds 2 to the "DV" or subtracts 2 from the target's Body--depends on what section of the rules you're reading, but it's the same), that means a Body 4 character gets pushed around like a rag doll every time they get shot.

*Unless they take 10 boxes from a single attack. Wait, aren't they dead at this point, anyway?

Can I get a clarification here please?

The first paragraph of the Knockdown rules in SR4A says

If a character takes a number of boxes of damage (Stun or Physical) from a single attack that equal or exceed his Body, then the attack automatically knocks him down.

but the second paragraph, when talking specifically about gel rounds, says

Gel rounds reduce the Body of a character by 2 when comparing it to the DV to determine knock-down.

my emphasis. Note the rules now say DV not damage taken.

So which is it??
Is it is a question of the kinetic energy imparted by the round - in which case the base DV of the weapon as modified by ammo type (but not adding attack successes) would be appropriate.
Is it the damage inflicted - which is more a case of shock & collapse than knockdown (and this would nearly always make the 10 box rule irrelevant).
Or perhaps it should be the kinetic energy applied to a vulnerable part of the body - ie DV modified by attack successes.

[Seriously Mike]

OK, another stupid question, this time regarding S&S rounds: some folks here claim that S&S rounds can hurt materialized spirits, however there is no information in the corebook that electricity damage is treated differently from "normal weapons" and thus is not stopped by the spirits' default immunity. Care to clarify?

[Hida Tsuzua]

OK, another stupid question, this time regarding S&S rounds: some folks here claim that S&S rounds can hurt materialized spirits, however there is no information in the corebook that electricity damage is treated differently from "normal weapons" and thus is not stopped by the spirits' default immunity. Care to clarify?

ItNW does apply to SnS rounds. However since Immunity is treated as Hardened Armor, the -1/2 AP aspect of SnS also applies. Thus a called shot with 1 net hit from a SnS round can hurt a force 10 spirit (6 base + 4 called shot + 1 net hit versus the spirit ItNW value of 20 / 2).

[Halflife]

OK, another stupid question, this time regarding S&S rounds: some folks here claim that S&S rounds can hurt materialized spirits, however there is no information in the corebook that electricity damage is treated differently from "normal weapons" and thus is not stopped by the spirits' default immunity. Care to clarify?

AP -half is pretty good at telling ItNW to piss off.

[Draco18s]

my emphasis. Note the rules now say DV not damage taken.

So which is it??

No idea.

[MJBurrage]

So which is it?? [with respect to Knockdown]
Is it is a question of the kinetic energy imparted by the round - in which case the base DV of the weapon as modified by ammo type (but not adding attack successes) would be appropriate.
Is it the damage inflicted - which is more a case of shock & collapse than knockdown (and this would nearly always make the 10 box rule irrelevant).
Or perhaps it should be the kinetic energy applied to a vulnerable part of the body - ie DV modified by attack successes.

I don't have my books handy, but since the idea of a bullet's kinetic energy knocking someone over is silly, I have always assumed it was "shock & collapse". So, unless the rules explicitly state otherwise, I would go with damage taken.

[Seriously Mike]

ItNW does apply to SnS rounds. However since Immunity is treated as Hardened Armor, the -1/2 AP aspect of SnS also applies. Thus a called shot with 1 net hit from a SnS round can hurt a force 10 spirit (6 base + 4 called shot + 1 net hit versus the spirit ItNW value of 20 / 2).

Splendid. Can spirits get KO'd or do they need to be zapped until their Physical damage track goes pop?

[Yerameyahu]

On the Knockdown question, I don't see how net hits logically translates to *either* kinetic energy or damage. It's 'how good you hit them'; maybe you hit them somewhere with greater leverage for how they happened to be standing, or maybe it's the greater damage, or both. Fluff-wise, it doesn't care.

[Draco18s]

Splendid. Can spirits get KO'd or do they need to be zapped until their Physical damage track goes pop?

If either of a spirits tracks are full, they are disrupted.

[Draco18s]

On the Knockdown question, I don't see how net hits logically translates to *either* kinetic energy or damage.

Announcer: Headshot!

[Zoot]

If either of a spirits tracks are full, they are disrupted.

Since when did spirits get 2 damage tracks??

To me, the idea that a taser, SnS, stun baton or shock glove would have any effect on a materialised spirit is daft. These weapons are designed to cause neuro-muscular chaos in a living creature. A spirits materialised body has no nerves, has no muscles, it is nothing but a solid lump of ecto goo - it is more akin to an object than a creature. IMO, only physical damage should affect it, anything that relies on a physiological response (taser type weapons, toxins, etc) - nope.

[Stahlseele]

Hmm, now that i think of it, Bogota! may just have brought an answer to SnS Abuse everywhere . .
If there's a CHARGE spell, then why not a DISCHARGE spell either?
LOS(A) and you are looking at much useless ammo? O.o