Technos and black ice, Why dont i usually see it on builds discussed in the forums? Options

[LurkerOutThere]

Which applies to both Normal Hackers and Technomancers, regardless of location. In fact, this is standard practice for Corps in our campaign. Corp personnel (who have access to the node) have the codes, and anyone else does not. Any hacking attempt usually ends badly for the hacker if he forgets to check for any Databombs and disable them.

Right, mostly i'm just thinking the ARC Scramble Security hacker is going to be house ruled to be immune to setting off databombs on the node itself. I'm just a little leery of letting my hackers lay traps for incoming security spiders.

[Yerameyahu]

And the program itself is inherently *infinite*-use. You can use it to set a new databomb every bloody action. It may well be the most ridiculous and overpowered thing in the entire matrix rules (that's saying something!), and Pavlov incredibly made it worse. Blah. You can even put them in other people's nodes. Jesus.

[LurkerOutThere]

Yea that's what concerns me, for starters I would require at least security level access to set databombs.

It's actually why I liked the way i had it in my head better, in order to have a databomb set up on a system the system itself must be running the databomb program. I may just keep that. My players will likely thank me even if they loose a few dirty tricks.

[Yerameyahu]

Well, you're going to get sec/admin access anyway. You do already need to to modify certain files, which is what you're doing with Databomb, and I'd assume admin access is required to use it on a node directly (which includes the option to *crash the node* on trigger). Technically, I guess, the rules don't mention access permissions. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[LurkerOutThere]

It raises an interesting loophole if allowed. I set a power one databomb with a response to crash the system. I tell one of my agents to log onto the system and give it the wrong password for the system. Bingo fast no/minimal test system crash.

[Yerameyahu]

Yup. So, it's obviously not allowed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Anyway, you should certainly require access privs to place databombs on files and nodes. Probably should also fundamentally change them, making them easier to disarm, or weaker, or both, and Pavlov doesn't exist. Why would you even legitimately need Pavlov, when an agent can replace it for free…

Maybe require players to remember the passwords for every last one, and if they're easy, maybe the enemy just guesses them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[HunterHerne]

Yup. So, it's obviously not allowed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Anyway, you should certainly require access privs to place databombs on files and nodes. Probably should also fundamentally change them, making them easier to disarm, or weaker, or both, and Pavlov doesn't exist. Why would you even legitimately need Pavlov, when an agent can replace it for free…

Maybe require players to remember the passwords for every last one, and if they're easy, maybe the enemy just guesses them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Ha. Set a threshold for an edge+logic test, if you want something somewhat rules worthy.

[LurkerOutThere]

I still think i like my system better in order to have databombs set up on the system you have to run the databomb program on the system itself. (Crashing the program does not remove the databombs). Also might allow a number of databombs limited by some multiple of the rating.

On the whole databombs are a really bad idea for all but the most secure/low traffic systems. Too easy to fry your brain or crash the security mainframe just because you havn't had coffee yet. I tend to use them sparingly.

[Yerameyahu]

Ooh, I almost forgot: they shouldn't do anything-d6 damage. Nothing in the game works like that. They should do Rating damage, *maybe* Rating*2.

[LurkerOutThere]

Well if their rarer they can be more pucker factor inducing. It's just findign that balance. If everytime your turning around your finding a databomb with 20 some damage quickly makes the game unplayable.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Yea that's what concerns me, for starters I would require at least security level access to set databombs.

As would I, as a Minimum. That only makes sense.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Ooh, I almost forgot: they shouldn't do anything-d6 damage. Nothing in the game works like that. They should do Rating damage, *maybe* Rating*2.

I like Rating*2 personally. The Rating(d6) damage is excessive, in my opinion. But with that, Hackers are a lot less likely to just zip through a system at whim. Most of the Databombs we encounter are in the Rating 3-5 Range, which are generally lethal, but are not impossible to disarm, since they can only get as many hits on their opposed test as their Program Rating. Of course, Hackers have the same issue, but Databomb Software generally has less dice to throw around (2*Rating) as compared to the Hackers Defuse Dice Pool (Skill+Logic+Bonuses).

[onlyghostdancesw...]

i like the way this topic is going. Its pretty much what i envisioned. Playing a loner techno who hates the corps and runs around bombing (kind of the matrix version of the unibomber (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) ).

[LurkerOutThere]

The problem is as a techno you'll really hate it if your GM reciprocates the same way as you are significantly more susceptible to data bombs then most.

[onlyghostdancesw...]

nah im preternaturally paranoid. I always send sprites first and analyze the hell out of the icons.

[AKWeaponsSpecial...]

i like the way this topic is going. Its pretty much what i envisioned. Playing a loner techno who hates the corps and runs around bombing (kind of the matrix version of the unibomber (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) ).

Ya know, if one of my players tried this, I'd quickly point out that it appears to be a very Dissonant thing to do. And most technomancers generally don't like Dissonants. Making an enemy out of your main source of potential allies is pretty suicidal.

[LurkerOutThere]

That's great if your team isn't going to die if you don't get that door open right frigging now which is what i traditionally do to my hackers/technos if their taking forever, the trick is to find a balance between speed and safety.

[onlyghostdancesw...]

didnt say i do it. but it appeals to me. I gm alot too and this would be a major way to teach the invincible matrix players to slow the hell down (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) . But yeah I might do it as a PC if i had a vendetta etc.

[onlyghostdancesw...]

That's great if your team isn't going to die if you don't get that door open right frigging now which is what i traditionally do to my hackers/technos if their taking forever, the trick is to find a balance between speed and safety.

if you are doing it simo though, the speeds in the matrix are waaay faster than in the meat so you can usually run both thing before the door opens in meat.

[Yerameyahu]

Lurker, I do appreciate your alternative (much rarer, dangerous, 'puckery' data bombs). Totally. I love the idea of the hacker sweating as he carefully searches for the bomb, carefully disarms it, etc., like a combination bombsquad/safecracker. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Still, I feel like there are any number of dangerous and scary defenses already, so it's just easier (not 'better') to make the bombs more reasonable.

Another alternative is to (somehow) make databombs cheaper, 1-use programs. You buy the bomb, you set the bomb. The matrix equivalent of disposable LAW rockets (1000¥ a pop, but worth it), or, more literally, demolition booby traps. The fluff on this might be tricky, but I consider balance much more important anyway. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[hobgoblin]

Sadly, SR4 introduced AR and removed the gray programs all in one go. End result is that the only people threatened by cybercombat are the dumb and the TM. The rest are trading one less pass (wired reflexes or adept) for immunity to black attacks. If the gray programs where still around, at least they would be sweating the loss of a "expensive" comlink. With AR your not even faced with dumpshock when the link goes into forced reboot.

[onlyghostdancesw...]

Sadly, SR4 introduced AR and removed the gray programs all in one go. End result is that the only people threatened by cybercombat are the dumb and the TM. The rest are trading one less pass (wired reflexes or adept) for immunity to black attacks. If the gray programs where still around, at least they would be sweating the loss of a "expensive" comlink. With AR your not even faced with dumpshock when the link goes into forced reboot.

yes but those really arent the ppl that are worried about it, were talking about technos and the serious opposition they will (should) face. besides if you want cheese the techno can always get the trodes and just mind rape them that way.

[hobgoblin]

yes but those really arent the ppl that are worried about it, were talking about technos and the serious opposition they will (should) face. besides if you want cheese the techno can always get the trodes and just mind rape them that way.

Requires physical contact tho...

[Yerameyahu]

Though the rules for resonance trodes don't actually do anything/make sense.

[LurkerOutThere]

While they could certainly stand some clarification they seem to work. I've just been going witht he interpretation that usign resonance trodes is a non action, the power would be pretty worthless otherwise. The answer is just not to let a technomancer hug you.