[X] My Assistant

[sabs]

Draw and shoot is one action phase, but it doesn't include take aim. So there are penalties.

[HunterHerne]

Draw and shoot is one action phase, but it doesn't include take aim. So there are penalties.

Unless you quick draw.

[Rubic]

if A is not an obvious hostile, B should not get a perception check. drawing a gun and shoot is one action phase, there is no time in between, to see what's coming. So unless B is prepared for a fight, A gets +6 to the surprise test. I just don't see it otherwise

It'd probably be a Con check to determine how well you hide your intent.

[HunterHerne]

It'd probably be a Con check to determine how well you hide your intent.

I agree.

[Glyph]

It also depends on the nature of the negotiations. If they are actually amicable negotiations, sure, you have a good chance of surprise. But a lot of the negotiations that shadowrunners deal with have the threat of impending violence in the back of everyone's mind - meets with a Johnson, dealings between two underworld factions, gangs, or corporations - drawing a gun won't exactly be a big shock under those circumstances. You might still get the drop on them, though, if you have a high enough initiative.

[HunterHerne]

It also depends on the nature of the negotiations. If they are actually amicable negotiations, sure, you have a good chance of surprise. But a lot of the negotiations that shadowrunners deal with have the threat of impending violence in the back of everyone's mind - meets with a Johnson, dealings between two underworld factions, gangs, or corporations - drawing a gun won't exactly be a big shock under those circumstances. You might still get the drop on them, though, if you have a high enough initiative.

I might still give them +3. Or, maybe +6 to him, and +3 to everyone else in the immediate area (Maybe only the Johnson, one of his guys, and two PC's are allowed in the room. I've done that, and let the m choose who. But then the Johnson was a troll, and the second was a mage.)

[Smirnov]

Basically, he is asking if he can make it so he is surprised and gets his bonus . .

That's right. I know the rules for ambush, surprise and all. The rules state 'in case there is a chance of surprise...', and I want to know if I can deliberately make that case of surprise happen not only in situations when we are setting an ambush, but also in case of surprise attack. Something iaijutsu-style - kill him before he knows what killed him.

As far as initiating surprise, it depends. You can initiate combat when everyone else is talking, but that would require a surprise check for everyone else to be able to act in that first pass, including team mates. It would also give you the ambush bonus, I think (+6). And, again, if you pull out your gun and shoot, your friends have no warning (if you did warn them you might, I would allow the NPC's a perception and/or sense motive test to see something was up). If I were GM, I would also give you a point of Notoriety if you did this in say, a Johnson meet, or another discussion.

That's pretty much social complications, of which I'm aware, but sometimes it just comes to this. Conserning the team, there can be a code phrase or even mind signal if we have proper spells (and we have (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ), so they will know something is on.

If you are undetected when you attack, surprise is automatic. Snipers often get this. If you're hoping to get this bonus for a hand-to-hand attack, your target will generally get a perception check to detect you, which, if successful, drops you from this bonus to the next one. (or possibly to the third state, if they detect you more than a round in advance)

If you were undetected until the turn you attack, AND you detect your enemy before that, you generally get the +6 ambush bonus. You'd also get this bonus if you were being friendly when you whip out your gun (assuming your target believed the friendly act).

If you were undetected until the turn you attack, and you don't detect your opponent either, you roll for surprise as normal. This also happens in situations where everyone is suspicious. but nobody knows when or if the guns are coming out.

The classic western quick-draw duel (and similar situations) skips surprise entirely, and just goes straight to initiative.

Thanks for the rundown. Adding to it Con roll to deceive the target, and I have what I need. Thanks!
And with Krav Maga I can aim as free action, so no worries here either.

[Rubic]

Thanks for the rundown. Adding to it Con roll to deceive the target, and I have what I need. Thanks!
And with Krav Maga I can aim as free action, so no worries here either.

Just remember, one free action per turn (2 if you include speaking, though you cannot substitute another action for speaking).