Capsule Rounds + Narcojet + DSMO, Is this too powerful for the cost? Options

[Mr. Smileys]

Capsule rounds cost 30 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) per 10 rounds.
Narcojet + DSMO costs 60 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) per dose.
So 10 Capsule rounds filled with the Narcojet DSMO combo would cost 630 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) (630=(10*(50+10))+30)

If you put this in your average pistol you would do 4-6(s) damage from the round and then 10(s) damage from the narcojet. Yes if they have a Chem Seal they are immune, but how often are your opponents going to be equipped with those? And they also get two damage resistance tests (one to resist the pistol damage and one to resist the toxin) but you are still talking 14-16(s) damage with one shot that does not include net hits.

Is this too powerful or is it balanced with the cost? (I know players who would drop the 6300 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) to get 100 rounds of this)

[Makki]

well, you're doing ~6S +2AP with the round, which everybody can resist almost entirely. THEN the toxin takes effect and yes, Narcojet can knockout Humans and Elfs instantly, but probably not Orks, Trolls and Dwarfs.

Edit: forgot to add the "at the end of the combat turn thing"

[Laughing One]

Narcojet (as any other toxin with the "Immediate" interval) take effect at the end of the combat turn, which is usually after the combat end.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I have a character that uses this combination most of the time for non-lethal takedowns (not used otherwise). Unfortunately, Like any toxin introduced into a system, I have frequently killed opponents (Yes, even Orks and Trolls on Occasion) when I have unfortunately rolled exceptionally well. It is a useful combination, to be sure, but does not ALWAYS give you the results you expect.

In answer to your question. It is balanced to its cost/effects in my opinion. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Falanin]

Also, do note that the poison damage takes effect at the end of the round, at the earliest (for instant poisons). Your target may be on his way out, but he gets his parting shot regardless of how potent a chem you hit him with.

Heh, ninja'd

[Neurosis]

well, you're doing ~6S +2AP with the round, which everybody can resist almost entirely. THEN the toxin takes effect and yes, Narcojet can knockout Humans and Elfs instantly, but probably not Orks, Trolls and Dwarfs.

Edit: forgot to add the "at the end of the combat turn thing"

I don't have a book to hand, but doesn't a capsule round have to deal at least one box of damage to deliver it's payload? If so, the 'everybody can resist ALMOST entirely' part becomes important, because characters who can entirely resist the ~6S don't have to worry about the narcojet at all. If I'm remembering correctly, of course.

[phlapjack77]

I think that would be for injection-vector toxins, or the dart gun thing. Touch-vector chems (hence the DMSO) would only be resisted with a full-chem seal - like a touch-spell attack, you don't have to do damage with the touch, you just have to actually connect...

[Yerameyahu]

It does seem like there should be some similar rule, doesn't it? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) After all, having goop splashed on your armor hardly matters. Still, I'm not aware of that rule; better wear your chemsealed FFBA. Personally, I wouldn't let capsules do any 'bullet damage'; their job is to pop, not hit, so —S, +2 AP hardly seems fair (it's more than the gel rounds, man!). Stacking damage is just bad.

[phlapjack77]

I would agree that capsule rounds shouldn't really do damage. Although in my experience with paint-ball, those things can hurt! Especially if the round doesn't "pop". Not sure that can be modelled in game, really (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Dakka Dakka]

better wear your chemsealed FFBA.

I doubt you can put a chem seal on the FFBA. While the full suit covers most of the body, the face is still exposed and the suit is in more than one part and mentions no locking mechansim between the parts. Chemical Protection should be fine though.

[Makki]

the capsule round is supposed to splash the stuff all over the enemy. So it is fine if the round doesn't hurt him as long as it hit him.

[UmaroVI]

I find chem weapons are most useful for characters who are not very combat-focused. Getting a full-auto weapon and making Wide Burst attacks with gel round toxins lets them have a very solid chance of hitting and doing something effective.

[Dakka Dakka]

I find chem weapons are most useful for characters who are not very combat-focused. Getting a full-auto weapon and making Wide Burst attacks with gel round toxins lets them have a very solid chance of hitting and doing something effective.

Using bursts make this very expensive. Moreover there are no rules for the likely overdosing as you do not know if 1 or (up to) 10 doses hit the target. Supperssive fire may be the only way to avoid this.

[Hida Tsuzua]

Using bursts make this very expensive. Moreover there are no rules for the likely overdosing as you do not know if 1 or (up to) 10 doses hit the target. Supperssive fire may be the only way to avoid this.

It is expensive, but for the type of character Umaro is talking about, he shouldn't be using it too much. It's more for mages in high background counts or technomancers who are count in the open without a drone. It shouldn't be a common occurance and money isn't that big of an issue.

As for overdosing, really it's more about the bodies hitting the floor than if they're alive or not.

[Irion]

It is a problem in general, that the stun damage is a bit to leathal or the leathal damage a bit to non leathal.
Depending on how gritty you like your game.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I don't have a book to hand, but doesn't a capsule round have to deal at least one box of damage to deliver it's payload? If so, the 'everybody can resist ALMOST entirely' part becomes important, because characters who can entirely resist the ~6S don't have to worry about the narcojet at all. If I'm remembering correctly, of course.

That is something that we use. You must take at least 1 point of damage for the toxin to be delivered.

[BishopMcQ]

It should be noted that Chemical seal provides full protection, unless breached by an attack dealing damage. (SR4A, p. 254) I'd read "dealing damage" in this case as physical damage, since a bullet hitting body armor is converted to Stun damage when it doesn't penetrate the armor.

Knives could penetrate ChemSeal, but a capsule (paintball round) splattering on the outside wouldn't.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

It should be noted that Chemical seal provides full protection, unless breached by an attack dealing damage. (SR4A, p. 254) I'd read "dealing damage" in this case as physical damage, since a bullet hitting body armor is converted to Stun damage when it doesn't penetrate the armor.

Knives could penetrate ChemSeal, but a capsule (paintball round) splattering on the outside wouldn't.

Agreed... And this is how we rule it as well...

[CanRay]

What's wrong with the Narojet Pistol/ParaShield Dart Gun?

[BishopMcQ]

Nothing is wrong with the dart gun, I think it is the damage from the poison plus a gel round that has people looking askew.

[Yerameyahu]

I mean, something might be wrong with the dart gun. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It's just not what we're talking about at the moment. Using capsules lets you use a non-exotic skill, better mods, etc.

[Rubic]

I mean, something might be wrong with the dart gun. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It's just not what we're talking about at the moment. Using capsules lets you use a non-exotic skill, better mods, etc.

Need I remind people of Aids Knife? You stab, they get damage + aids. Injection knives work on a similar method. Granted, paintballs CAN bounce off their targets, which would be a matter of kinetic dispersal (impact), and I doubt they'd be doing physical damage (reduce damage type to stun). If the impact armor check is greater than the capsule round's damage check, it could easily have bounced off, or otherwise not delivered it's payload. Either way, grenades are more fun (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Gerzel]

I doubt you can put a chem seal on the FFBA. While the full suit covers most of the body, the face is still exposed and the suit is in more than one part and mentions no locking mechansim between the parts. Chemical Protection should be fine though.

My ruling is that the locking parts are part of the Chem Seal modification and Chem Seal says it comes with a 1 hour air supply, so adding a mask for the mod doesn't seem like much. If you really want to nitpick add to the cost of the mod but I defiantly seems possible.