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> Bums in 2072, Giving a bum a money, and other questions about nuyen transfers.
Bushw4cker
post Jul 20 2011, 08:32 PM
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CanRay comments in post about Day Jobs

"With bank transfers being the preferred method of paying for items, this brings up some questions..."

"Why does Stuffer Shack need a staff?"

"And what the hell do you hold it up for?"


Got me thinking....

With everything being wireless how do the bums survive?

-I imagine a squatter with an old Metalink. The bum's PAN has an AR window pop up asking for spare change. The AR window is a virtual Cardboard sign, with a cup for online transfers.

Would it be near impossible to get away with robbing someone at gunpoint? All the funds are virtual and can be traced. How does someone get away with it?

Appreciate any comments.

Thanks
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Critias
post Jul 20 2011, 08:41 PM
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You don't rob people for their money any more (unless you're in an area that might still have lots of corp scrip lying around), you rob them for their things.

Even as far back as the original Food Fight scenario, they pointed out that the Chiller Thrillers were going to "steal commodities and valuables like food, weapons, and gold fillings," instead of cash, and that they were going to "load up on stuffers," but also "be looking for anything of value the customers have.
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suoq
post Jul 20 2011, 09:07 PM
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I just give bums food, bottled water, and directions to the nearest shelter, even today. I frequently don't carry cash but I usually have bottled water and I can take the guy into a place and buy him a bite and just talk for a bit.

And agreed, if I'm gonna beat up someone and take something, it's probably their things I'm taking.
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MikeKozar
post Jul 20 2011, 09:14 PM
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QUOTE (Bushw4cker @ Jul 20 2011, 12:32 PM) *
Would it be near impossible to get away with robbing someone at gunpoint? All the funds are virtual and can be traced. How does someone get away with it?


Well, as Tamamous is fond of saying, it's what's inside that counts.
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Bushw4cker
post Jul 20 2011, 09:36 PM
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QUOTE (MikeKozar @ Jul 20 2011, 10:14 PM) *
Well, as Tamamous is fond of saying, it's what's inside that counts.


That is Hilarious
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Draco18s
post Jul 20 2011, 09:38 PM
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QUOTE (MikeKozar @ Jul 20 2011, 05:14 PM) *
Well, as Tamamous is fond of saying, it's what's inside that counts.


I chuckled.
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Aku
post Jul 20 2011, 10:13 PM
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Oh, i can hear it now.. "Why TamamousDating.com? because we here at TamamousDating believe, its what's on the inside that counts, not some scientific method to finding love..."
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Elfenlied
post Jul 20 2011, 10:24 PM
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QUOTE (Aku @ Jul 20 2011, 11:13 PM) *
Oh, i can hear it now.. "Why TamamousDating.com? because we here at TamamousDating believe, its what's on the inside that counts, not some scientific method to finding love..."


Well, something similar is already available IRL
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Critias
post Jul 20 2011, 10:26 PM
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QUOTE (Aku @ Jul 20 2011, 05:13 PM) *
Oh, i can hear it now.. "Why TamamousDating.com? because we here at TamamousDating believe, its what's on the inside that counts, not some scientific method to finding love..."

"We just need your turn ons and turn offs, your horoscope sign, and your date of birth, please. Oh, and your blood type."
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suoq
post Jul 20 2011, 10:35 PM
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Tamamous: Finding the perfect someone to give your heart to. Forever.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ninja.gif)
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Fabe
post Jul 21 2011, 01:03 AM
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QUOTE (Bushw4cker @ Jul 20 2011, 04:32 PM) *
CanRay comments in post about Day Jobs

"With bank transfers being the preferred method of paying for items, this brings up some questions..."

"Why does Stuffer Shack need a staff?"

"And what the hell do you hold it up for?"


Got me thinking....

With everything being wireless how do the bums survive?

-I imagine a squatter with an old Metalink. The bum's PAN has an AR window pop up asking for spare change. The AR window is a virtual Cardboard sign, with a cup for online transfers.

Would it be near impossible to get away with robbing someone at gunpoint? All the funds are virtual and can be traced. How does someone get away with it?

Appreciate any comments.

Thanks


Well someone has to stock shelves,mop the floor,chase out loiters and bitch about how their not even suppose to be here today. Sure drone could do most of these jobs but humans are cheaper require less maintenance.
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Neurosis
post Jul 21 2011, 01:25 AM
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Damn good question, actually. If you can afford a commlink for me to ping Nuyen too, you don't really need to be begging, do you?
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Draco18s
post Jul 21 2011, 02:06 AM
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QUOTE (Neurosis @ Jul 20 2011, 09:25 PM) *
Damn good question, actually. If you can afford a commlink for me to ping Nuyen too, you don't really need to be begging, do you?


Not really. The cheapest com you can get is $200 (100 for the link and 100 for the OS).
I know people today who can't afford rent on a cheap apartment, but still have a laptop.
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suoq
post Jul 21 2011, 02:16 AM
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QUOTE (Bushw4cker @ Jul 20 2011, 03:32 PM) *
The bum's PAN has an AR window pop up asking for spare change. The AR window is a virtual Cardboard sign, with a cup for online transfers.

Note that a cardboard sign would be a LOT more effective.

In order to see the AR window you have to be running in active mode AND have your commlink hooked up to your visual displays. Anyone running passive, hidden, or not wearing goggles/glasses/etc. or anyone who simply has their cybereyes/goggles/glasses/etc not displaying AR isn't going to see the sign.
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Critias
post Jul 21 2011, 02:23 AM
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QUOTE (suoq @ Jul 20 2011, 09:16 PM) *
Note that a cardboard sign would be a LOT more effective.

In order to see the AR window you have to be running in active mode AND have your commlink hooked up to your visual displays. Anyone running passive, hidden, or not wearing goggles/glasses/etc. or anyone who simply has their cybereyes/goggles/glasses/etc not displaying AR isn't going to see the sign.

Well, keep in mind that in the fluff apparently most people would still see the "sign," since it's mostly paranoid shadowrunner types or the occasional grouch who's got their stuff turned off. Whole chunks of the canon advertisement/social media world wouldn't work it everyone walked around with their electronics toned down.

A back-up piece of actual cardboard might not be a terrible idea, but it comes down to just how "cyber" and dystopic your setting is. Maybe cardboard's cheaply made and doesn't last long in our throw-away society, maybe cardboard signs wouldn't work because poor are so used to icons they can't write in order to beg, maybe wasting perfectly good insulation-cardboard on a sign means that sliver of warmth between life and death, maybe cardboard's organic enough folks let the rain soften it up and eat it, who knows?

Either way, I don't imagine a bum with a cheap, beat-up, old commlink to be any more ridiculous than the ones you see in real life, who jabber on cell phones or smoke cigarettes while begging.
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Fatum
post Jul 21 2011, 02:25 AM
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QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jul 21 2011, 06:06 AM) *
Not really. The cheapest com you can get is $200 (100 for the link and 100 for the OS).
I know people today who can't afford rent on a cheap apartment, but still have a laptop.
Yeah, we've recently discussed that, too.
Buying used and/or counterfeit may make the price even lower; so even a bum is able to afford a 'link.

Now, the places you're likely to meet a bum to begin with do not only use cred, but barter, token money and corp scrip in cash, as well, you'd think.
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Warlordtheft
post Jul 21 2011, 02:30 AM
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QUOTE (MikeKozar @ Jul 20 2011, 05:14 PM) *
Well, as Tamamous is fond of saying, it's what's inside that counts.



That is so wrong I LMAO.
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Draco18s
post Jul 21 2011, 02:34 AM
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QUOTE (Fatum @ Jul 20 2011, 10:25 PM) *
Yeah, we've recently discussed that, too.
Buying used and/or counterfeit may make the price even lower; so even a bum is able to afford a 'link.

Now, the places you're likely to meet a bum to begin with do not only use cred, but barter, token money and corp scrip in cash, as well, you'd think.


True, they probably would.
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Neurosis
post Jul 21 2011, 04:40 AM
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QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jul 20 2011, 10:06 PM) *
Not really. The cheapest com you can get is $200 (100 for the link and 100 for the OS).
I know people today who can't afford rent on a cheap apartment, but still have a laptop.


Are they actually begging on the streets, though? If they had their laptop with them, I wouldn't be inclined to give them money. I don't know, maybe that makes me a bad person. : )
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CanRay
post Jul 21 2011, 06:23 AM
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QUOTE (Bushw4cker @ Jul 20 2011, 03:32 PM) *
CanRay comments in post about Day Jobs
Oh, I comment far more than that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Anyhow, it's come up a few times in the fluff that electronic currency is making things harder for the SINless to make an honest (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) . In order to properly work a commlink and have a bank account, you need a SIN, after all. No SIN, no Matrix Service Provider, either, remember?

Now, there are still alternatives: There is still hard currency in some countries. The UCAS and the CAS still has the Dollar, Quebec (F*** the accente egout or whatever is supposed to go there!) still has the Franc, and England still has the Pound (Being confused by metric currency according to Sir PTerry.).

Certified Credsticks are still around, and some cruddy old copies held in the hands of bums would allow for stick-to-stick transfers no problem. I doubt they'd allow people to take them to slot into a CommLink, however (IIRC, CommLinks have a Credstick slot.).

Finally, there's what I called the "Burned SIN Recycling System", where people in the Shadow Businesses drop their burnt and broken SINs onto the cheapest CommLink they can get, put some cred on it to sweeten the pot, and find a passed out bum that matches close enough to themselves to drop it on ("He's an Ork, we all look alike to breeders anyhow.").

The reality is that most are in very dire straights, relying on handouts... And, after what happened with the Universal Brotherhood...
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Rubic
post Jul 21 2011, 06:56 AM
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QUOTE (CanRay @ Jul 21 2011, 01:23 AM) *
Oh, I comment far more than that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Anyhow, it's come up a few times in the fluff that electronic currency is making things harder for the SINless to make an honest (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) . In order to properly work a commlink and have a bank account, you need a SIN, after all. No SIN, no Matrix Service Provider, either, remember?

Now, there are still alternatives: There is still hard currency in some countries. The UCAS and the CAS still has the Dollar, Quebec (F*** the accente egout or whatever is supposed to go there!) still has the Franc, and England still has the Pound (Being confused by metric currency according to Sir PTerry.).

Certified Credsticks are still around, and some cruddy old copies held in the hands of bums would allow for stick-to-stick transfers no problem. I doubt they'd allow people to take them to slot into a CommLink, however (IIRC, CommLinks have a Credstick slot.).

Finally, there's what I called the "Burned SIN Recycling System", where people in the Shadow Businesses drop their burnt and broken SINs onto the cheapest CommLink they can get, put some cred on it to sweeten the pot, and find a passed out bum that matches close enough to themselves to drop it on ("He's an Ork, we all look alike to breeders anyhow.").

The reality is that most are in very dire straights, relying on handouts... And, after what happened with the Universal Brotherhood...

I did have an idea for, once my character has enough wealth to start a company, to hire SINless as a cheap workforce in exchange for some minor training, familial benefits, and promise of a SIN down the line. How feasible do you think it would be to start such a project up (in the 2070's, not today)?
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Critias
post Jul 21 2011, 07:00 AM
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The feasibility of that sort of scheme is entirely between your GM and how much down time crap he wants going on. If all he's after is a straightforward gutter-scum game, one of you suddenly trying to start up a semi-legit company on the side is probably not going to go over well (and maybe the mob or someone squeezes you, because if it was a great idea organized crime would've already done it).

If he's doing a lot more sandbox type game and thinks it's a cool idea, it'll go over a lot more smoothly, and he'll tweak his game world to make it all make sense.
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CanRay
post Jul 21 2011, 07:43 AM
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A legal company can't use SINless (Can't tax them after all. The rare SIN handouts by the Government and Military Service seem to be the only way to get one legitimately.). But a semi-criminal enterprise doing sweatshop labor that pays (drek) cash or goods for work, easily done. Up to the GM how much extra he wants going on, however.

Then again, the Shadowskool would count as this as well, wouldn't it?

Either way, more likely to be targets, hirers, or contacts than something the PCs would set up. Too much to lose if the fertilizer hits the ventilator...
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SpellBinder
post Jul 21 2011, 08:36 AM
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QUOTE (Neurosis @ Jul 20 2011, 07:25 PM) *
Damn good question, actually. If you can afford a commlink for me to ping Nuyen too, you don't really need to be begging, do you?

P.I.s do it, C.S.I.s do it, and bums have been doing it long before either of the first two existed. Dumpster Diving.

You'd be amazed at what some people throw away.
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Fatum
post Jul 21 2011, 09:15 AM
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Well, CanRay, first, you don't really need an MSP with WMI. Second, you can get a legal SIN at any time, remember? Seems to be the new thing in 4th edition...
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