[X] My Assistant

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Yes. It's not viable. Cellular Repair, however, is.

Yep, Already Acknowledged that above... I was responding to the 0.1 Essence Recovery/Month statement, sorry. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[hermit]

No prob, it's a bit hidden. And badly worded, as said above. The numbers in that example are conjecture.

[Fyndhal]

*looks at thread title tiredly*
why has nobody said it yet?
"Wait . . legal vampires? We have those . . they are called lawyers . ."

Congratulations. You have won the thread! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Dr. Dracula

You mean, Dr. Acula, no?

[KarmaInferno]

It's always kinda amusing when Tymeaus and hermit argue.

Them both having the same avatar is kinda trippy. Like someone arguing with himself.




-k

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

It's always kinda amusing when Tymeaus and hermit argue.

Them both having the same avatar is kinda trippy. Like someone arguing with himself.

-k

Heheh... It does keep the world interesting... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Sengir]

You misremember. Cellular Repair, p. 88, Augmentation. Takes up to 2 months, 15.000/week. Only works on damage done by Essence Drain and Energy Drain. 2 months for 5 Essence amounts to a very sustainable food source for a pampered SR4 vampire.

Well, I correctly remembered the wrong item. As TJ figured out, I was thinking of Revitalization (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Cellular Repair of course makes healing from Essence Drain really easy - which I guess was the intention, just that the author thought of players as the victims and not as perpetrators...


PS: On the other hand, vampire hunters will also love this.

[hermit]

Cellular Repair of course makes healing from Essence Drain really easy - which I guess was the intention, just that the author thought of players as the victims and not as perpetrators...

I don't know. The core books were written more or less in parallel, right? And the decision to make the Infected the new PC craze to woo over some disenfranchised WoD players was made at top level ... not saying you are wrong, but the method is so overly cheap ... at the very least, it is really easy to take advantage of.

[Sengir]

Congratulations, that bite means your character is irrevocably gimped - well, not totally irrevocably, you can get that Essence back at a rate of 0.1/month.

Just the thing you want to hear your GM say, hm?

[hermit]

Odds are you get it back a LOT faster with Cellular Repair.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Odds are you get it back a LOT faster with Cellular Repair.

I'd buy that for a Dolla, errrr, Nuyen. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Patrick Goodman]

re: kiboshing "Infected rights"

Please do. It's taking the cuddlyness a few steps to far.

Don't expect it overnight. I'm slow, and it's a niche problem in the overall world picture. I'll do what I can, as I can. I've got some plans, though.

Also, Wendigos probably eat them. They prefer the flesh of cannibals anyway (or should, being Wendigos, at least).

There's that, too.

re: my dislike of "Infected rights"

That would be the point of this. a vampire night club 'with real 'live vampires' is going to draw fans and haters. Being legal would mean you could have to be very careful. Popping someone in DC is legal but in Denver it is murder. Just to grab two cities.

Well, the whole concept was ill-conceived, at best, in my opinion. Far as I'm concerned, it's a publicity campaign that's succeeded far too well for far too long. Time for something to go awry, says I....

[CanRay]

That would be the point of this. a vampire night club 'with real 'live vampires' is going to draw fans and haters. Being legal would mean you could have to be very careful. Popping someone in DC is legal but in Denver it is murder. Just to grab two cities.

Then we find out that they sparkle and aren't really vampires, but are just trying to get attention...

[hermit]

Well, the whole concept was ill-conceived, at best, in my opinion. Far as I'm concerned, it's a publicity campaign that's succeeded far too well for far too long. Time for something to go awry, says I....

Or went not as well as expected, depending on whether that was meant in-world or meta ... but yes, it is high time for something to go wrong there. Best, start with Hannibelle, the shadwtalker introduced as the mascot of this change.

Don't expect it overnight. I'm slow, and it's a niche problem in the overall world picture. I'll do what I can, as I can. I've got some plans, though.

Any movement is movement.

[Starmage21]

re: kiboshing "Infected rights"

Don't expect it overnight. I'm slow, and it's a niche problem in the overall world picture. I'll do what I can, as I can. I've got some plans, though.

There's that, too.

re: my dislike of "Infected rights"

Well, the whole concept was ill-conceived, at best, in my opinion. Far as I'm concerned, it's a publicity campaign that's succeeded far too well for far too long. Time for something to go awry, says I....

So we're going to get a vampire public opinion SNAFU a la Russel Edgington from True Blood because some people whined and cried about vampires?

Blech

Just blech.

[hermit]

Play oWoD for all your sparkly needs, dude.

[CanRay]

Play oWoD for all your sparkly needs, dude.

No thanks. Those aren't vampires, they're douchebags.

[Patrick Goodman]

Or went not as well as expected, depending on whether that was meant in-world or meta ... but yes, it is high time for something to go wrong there. Best, start with Hannibelle, the shadwtalker introduced as the mascot of this change.

Well, someone else wrote her up, but she is involved...after a fashion, at least.

[Stahlseele]

Congratulations. You have won the thread! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)



You mean, Dr. Acula, no?

*bows* ^^

[Sengir]

Best, start with Hannibelle, the shadwtalker introduced as the mascot of this change.

Because ghoul rights are a totally new addition to SR canon...

Just looked it up for fun, Target:UCAS (which introduced ghoul PCs for the first time and was set years after Special Order 162) was released in 1997. At that time the Renraku Arcology was just an oversized shopping mall, and IRL a guy called Tony Blair became Prime MInister of the UK.

[Xahn Borealis]

Because ghoul rights are a totally new addition to SR canon...

Just looked it up for fun, Target:UCAS (which introduced ghoul PCs for the first time and was set years after Special Order 162) was released in 1997. At that time the Renraku Arcology was just an oversized shopping mall, and IRL a guy called Tony Blair became Prime MInister of the UK.

Coincidence? Don't believe it for a second, omae. TONY BLAIR WAS BEHIND THE ARCOLOGY SHUTDOWN. NEW LABOUR WAS JUST A TOOL OF DEUS.

[PoliteMan]

I think there's a difference between Infected rights and Ghoul rights.

I do think the idea of ghoul rights is interesting. Most of the other infected, from my reading, are basically feral monsters and there's not much that can be done other than kill them. Ghouls fill a depressing niche if done correctly: people caught halfway in the transformation between man and monster. They're not monsters (not all of them) but there's not much that can be done to save them and inevitably they're going to start killing people to stay alive. There's some good ground for moral dilemmas there. I think the push for normalization makes sense and can bring the issue into focus for the players but it's the sort of thing that can never occur. The moment there's some kind of solution to the ghoul's man/monster issue they become pretty pointless.

There's basically two other kinds of Infected, basically mindless monsters who are always good for a combat run and will never get rights, or the masterminds like vampires, who really don't need rights and are kinda annoying anyway. I could buy vampires being interesting in SR in a world filled with ancient dragon, IE, spirit, etc conspiracies, they never really found a niche.

[Sengir]

Coincidence? Don't believe it for a second, omae.

Some people are just too smart...


Dammit, where's my black attache case?

[Mardrax]

I think there's a difference between Infected rights and Ghoul rights.

I do think the idea of ghoul rights is interesting. Most of the other infected, from my reading, are basically feral monsters and there's not much that can be done other than kill them. Ghouls fill a depressing niche if done correctly: people caught halfway in the transformation between man and monster. They're not monsters (not all of them) but there's not much that can be done to save them and inevitably they're going to start killing people to stay alive. There's some good ground for moral dilemmas there. I think the push for normalization makes sense and can bring the issue into focus for the players but it's the sort of thing that can never occur. The moment there's some kind of solution to the ghoul's man/monster issue they become pretty pointless.

There's basically two other kinds of Infected, basically mindless monsters who are always good for a combat run and will never get rights, or the masterminds like vampires, who really don't need rights and are kinda annoying anyway. I could buy vampires being interesting in SR in a world filled with ancient dragon, IE, spirit, etc conspiracies, they never really found a niche.

I tend to think ghouls have a perfect position in robbing the greater evil of the shedim of resources.

Also, I have a vampire businessman walking around in Amsterdam, offering SINless services to sell away their souls. ("Don't worry, you're not selling away all of it.") I've always liked that classical image. And vampires are in an excellent position to fulfill it IMHO.

[hermit]

Because ghoul rights are a totally new addition to SR canon...

Just looked it up for fun, Target:UCAS (which introduced ghoul PCs for the first time and was set years after Special Order 162) was released in 1997. At that time the Renraku Arcology was just an oversized shopping mall, and IRL a guy called Tony Blair became Prime MInister of the UK.

And Tamir Grey died, and then there were the 162s and Tamanous, who basically gave metahumanity the finger because Tamir and his merry cannibals were collateral damage in Ares' fighting bugs (and claimed it was totally intentional, disregarding Ares' previous attempt, which included a nuke, something that usually destroys entire cities). Hannibele was introduced as a change from that, a "good ghoul" who is not only highly ethical and morally better than you, but also noninfectious since born ghouls are not infectious anymore.

Which was my point. Which you totally missed, again, and tried to distort into something you can disagree with, again. Where is your quote for your claim on civil rights in SR, btw?

I do think the idea of ghoul rights is interesting. Most of the other infected, from my reading, are basically feral monsters and there's not much that can be done other than kill them. Ghouls fill a depressing niche if done correctly: people caught halfway in the transformation between man and monster.

That's only the lucky few among them. For the rest, it's feral monster. At least, it used to be before SR4. Actually, vampires fit that hat far better. they're less infectious, too. By the (argh) SR4 rules, vamires have a lot easier time to live in a socially tolerable way than ghouls. Sad but true.

[Sengir]

Hannibele was introduced as a change from that, a "good ghoul" who is not only highly ethical and morally better than you, but also noninfectious since born ghouls are not infectious anymore.

I've yet to see an ethics lecture from Hannibelle - given that she works for Tamanous, she'd be a poor lecturer anyway. And her biography I'd like to see myself...

Where is your quote for your claim on civil rights in SR, btw?

Already responded to that. Which you totally missed, again

That's only the lucky few among them. For the rest, it's feral monster. At least, it used to be before SR4.

Hmmmm, odd. Just a few lines before you had this to say about those things which are feral monsters but for a few lucky ones:
And Tamir Grey died, and then there were the 162s and Tamanous, who basically gave metahumanity the finger because Tamir and his merry cannibals were collateral damage in Ares' fighting bugs (and claimed it was totally intentional, disregarding Ares' previous attempt, which included a nuke, something that usually destroys entire cities).
Which is at least closer to the real deal. The idea of ghouls as mostly just feral, mindless monsters was already passé as of Bug City.

By the (argh) SR4 rules, vamires have a lot easier time to live in a socially tolerable way than ghouls. Sad but true.

Only if one ignores the somewhat antisocial aspect of draining live people of their souls...