[X] My Assistant

[Falanin]

On the contrary, I did it with 3 (4 really, but the first one got blown away first action, after which I adjusted.) I apologize for being clear. Some spirits of force 2-4 (in this case three of them, two of which were actually in the fight), and one "boss".

I realize that it isn't a perfect fit, and is certainly unsuitable for many campaigns. I just wanted to give a counterexample to show that you can do a solid boss fight with only a few opponents. Honestly, the fight would have gone fairly similarly had the boss been alone. Harder to scale for drama, but nearly as drawn out and deadly.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Individually every one of us could have saved some time for each IP. Well...

The first evening had some preparations, initial considerations, tactics, etc., and the second evening actually finished off rather early, but still. YES, excessive, but it should be possible to do stuff like that.

It is possible. We have run through 6-12 opponents (our team is 5-6 regular characters, so 10 to 18 combatants on scene) in less than an hour or so, dependant upon who and what was going on. A lot of it is on the players, though. If the players/GM are completely unused to the system, or have yet to gain competence/mastery with the combat rules, then things can bog down considerably.

[AppliedCheese]

In all fairness, most shadowrun gunfights happen in serious CQB range...which is usually about as lethal as it sounds. Guys shooting assault rifles down a barren alley standing 5-30m from each other are going to die in a hurry. As are people shooting across a room.

If it seems like fights are to clinically precise, go with the time honored tribute to reality: don't put a marker on the map so to speak, just say "there's bullets coming from that building yonder. Yes, you absolutely can try to identify the source more precisely...but you went full defense, so not this IP. I feel I should inform you that said building is 100m away, has a lot of potential firing points, and you are standing in the open. No you can't tell if they are aiming at you specifically or not. No, you can't see how mnay dice they will roll before deciding on full defense- I'm just going to tell you bullets are coming in somewhat uncomfortably close at the moment...why yes, hosing the building down WILL make them make the same decision"

[CanRay]

Rule One: Cover is good! Find cover!

Rule Two: If you can't find cover, find concealment. If they can't see you, they can't shoot you.
Rule Two, Provision A: Some firearms don't provide any kind of cover, just concealment, find the thickest, toughest concealment you can find!

Rule Three: If you can't find concealment, be somewhere else. Fast.

[last_of_the_grea...]

Back to discussing move-by-wire...

What do you think happens when a security scanner identifies a runner's 'ware as deltaware move-by-wire 3 with an expert system?

Say a security mage has a uses a spell to take over the runner's body, has him march into a holding area, strip off all his clothes and stuff, then step into a nice, secure stockade. Then he releases him and explains that having move by wire is illegal and it is now going to be surgically removed at his expense...

[CanRay]

He whips out this Fake Bounty Hunter's License and Fake Quebec SIN and says, "I have it, how you say, legal? Oui. Legal."

[last_of_the_grea...]

What fake licence? He's nekkid! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

If they have the tech to detect a specific cyberware piece then they have the tech to defeat your fake i.d.... or the magic to read your mind...

Move by wire is forbidden, not restricted. They tend to get uptight when they notice stuff like that and may not follow the rules. Or the GM is evil. >:)

[Mardrax]

Move by wire is forbidden, not restricted. They tend to get uptight when they notice stuff like that and may not follow the rules. Or the GM is evil. >:)

Laws and regulations on specific items vary from country to country.

In Soviet Russia, Wire Moves You!

[suoq]

Just for clarification. I know were talking about MBW3 and yes, MBW3 is F. MBW 1 & 2 are just R. This isn't a disagreement, it's just clarification.

[CanRay]

Laws and regulations on specific items vary from country to country.

Exactly. When you have an official bounty on really big, mean, nasty things (Although they took Dragons off the list for some, strange reason. Something about people being eaten and ketchup factories being broken into.)... MBW sounds pretty restricted rather than forbidden.

[Zaranthan]

My favorite interpretation of the Restricted Versus Forbidden debate is that Forbidden items EXIST, therefore SOMEBODY must be able to possess them. The licenses and SINs associated with such items are more carefully scrutinized, but fakes are, by definition, obtainable.

A HMG might be enough probable cause for Lone Star to cuff you and take you downtown for a full biometric analysis, but to simply declare a GM Fiat that possessing an F-Rated item is automatically an indictable offense makes a lot of the sixth world unworkable. Otherwise, LS would be shutting down Ares assembly plants left right and center. Ares can produce F-Rated items, therefore F-Rated objects are legal for SOMEBODY to own. You just need the paperwork (or cyberwork) to say that you're one of them.

[suoq]

Got curious so I went looking.

"What do you think happens when a security scanner identifies a runner's 'ware as deltaware move-by-wire 3 with an expert system?"

Looking at pg 262 of SR4A, that is one incredible scanner. It has a threshold of 5+ just to find the deltaware and it needs even more hits to determine the grade. A license for MBW 2 strikes me as a very believable con because after a bit of work with the scanner, they might see what they were expecting to see from the license IF the scanner was good enough to even see it in the first place and the deltaware MBW 3 is even in it's database. Even if the machine sends up a delta MBW3 alert, the guard is staring at a delta MBW 2 license. I'm not sure I want to hassle the man who has enough corporate pull for delta MBW 2+ and even if it's MBW3, making decisions about a man with delta MBW 3 is probably above his pay grade.

[Zaranthan]

I'm not sure I want to hassle the man who has enough corporate pull for delta MBW 2+ and even if it's MBW3, making decisions about a man with delta MBW 3 is probably above his pay grade.

Good point. There's another thread around here detailing social roles, but it's worth mentioning the intimidation factor security clearance provides.

Speaking personally, if somebody provided me with incontrovertible evidence of being a federal security agent (pick your favorite branch, it really doesn't matter), I'd hesitate to call down thunder on them. Those reverberations can shatter windows for miles, if I haven't mixed my metaphors too much.

[Yerameyahu]

Zaranthan, they're legal for militaries (and equivalents). It's like driving down the street in a tank with full armament: yes, people recognize it as a real thing that exists… and as something that *you* can't possibly have legally.

[Glyph]

Some of the legalities make absolutely no sense. For instance, bone lacing is F, but bone density augmentation, you don't even need a permit for.

[Zaranthan]

So, you need the paperwork proving that you're a paramilitary agent on official federal business. The paperwork isn't nonexistent, it's just really rare and hard to copy.

[Yerameyahu]

Definitely, Glyph. Who knows what they were thinking.

That's true. But there's a level of 'really rare' that rounds to zero. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) And you can still get and use F items, bearing in mind the risk. Everyone does it.

[CanRay]

Zaranthan, they're legal for militaries (and equivalents). It's like driving down the street in a tank with full armament: yes, people recognize it as a real thing that exists… and as something that *you* can't possibly have legally.

Unless you're in London, England and the cannon has been deactivated. I'm not joking.

Some of the legalities make absolutely no sense. For instance, bone lacing is F, but bone density augmentation, you don't even need a permit for.

Bone Lacing is likely a military- or security-grade augmentation, whereas bone density "augmentation" could be used to restore bones after severe trauma, and have legitimate civilian uses.

That said, one of the characters I write for got his Titanium Bone Lacing though health insurance and rabid attack lawyers that insisted that it be carried out as stringently as possible. He had a 160-year old building made of hardened brick and steel fall on him, after having a bomb go off and erase his face.

[Yerameyahu]

The cannon is kind of the point, though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I feel like any civilian reason for Density applies to Lacing. There's just no reason for those wonky ratings. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[CanRay]

There's also strange laws that don't make any sense in real life as well.

For instance, it's harder to get a license to sell Airsoft in Canada than it is to sell firearms. And the license to sell Airsoft also allows the store in question to store weapons-grade nuclear material.

EDIT: I know this because my FLGS/Army Surplus Store (Now with Nepalese Kukris) also sells Airsoft, and it took years to get the license for it.

[Zaranthan]

<snip> The license to sell Airsoft also allows the store in question to store weapons-grade nuclear material.

Well, schneikes. That pretty much justifies my street sam's panther cannon whole-cloth, now <HuckFinn>das'n it?</HuckFinn>

[CanRay]

Stupid laws abound IRL, so why not in Shadowrun?

"Bioware is green, while Bone Lacing is a Industrial Process, and thus should be regulated harder."

[Yerameyahu]

I agree that it's realistically stupid, but that's no comfort. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) We expect out fantasy world to be a little better, even in a dystopia.

[Blitz66]

I agree that it's realistically stupid, but that's no comfort. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) We expect out fantasy world to be a little better, even in a dystopia.

I recently started playing a character whose highest Knowledge Skill was Augmentation Legislation. I expect our futuristic dystopia to be sufficiently wacky to allow my character to game the system!

[CanRay]

I agree that it's realistically stupid, but that's no comfort. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) We expect out fantasy world to be a little better, even in a dystopia.

Maybe you do. I've been scarred by the stupid through years of tech support.

I can't help but feel that humanity will continue to be anything but illogical about laws, even if they're "More than human" in more ways than one.