[X] My Assistant

[Udoshi]

*No, those don't add to fading. Software is not a social skill. TP adds to tests that use Charisma AND a Social skill, which Software is not.

I was suggesting it for Squee's charisma stream techno, which DOES use Charisma for Fading. Cognitive dissonance insults, meet context insults.
Yes. Tailored pheromones add to Charisma and Social Skill tests. (the implication is that it helps attribute only tests as well as skill tests)
He soaks fading with Resonance + Charisma, making it a Charisma Test.
Because the resonance is not magic, the non-applying clause doesn't make it not work.
In this specific incidence (rules as written, charisma stream), it works. Its horribly abusive and begging for a gm to shoot it down, but it would fly in missions. Otherwise, you are completely correct, and I agree with you.

As for a technomancer and ware, it all depends on the stream. Control rigs are a +2 for vehicles. Cerebral boosters add 3 to drain. Pushed and a cyberhand with a nanohive can add 4 to all your hacking and computer related complex forms. I would say its easy to gain more than you lose, but it all depends on how the technomancer is set up. Even the good old cybereye is worthwhile. Trauma dampers help a lot with casual/option threading. Platelets give you some measure of safety when using Overthreading, and they combo nicely. When you look at it mechanically, its actually not that bad. all you have to think of is 'how do I get more than one dice back out of this?'. The problem is you have to cherrypick, because 2 points of loss really isn't worth it, and even with alpha, you can't fit everything.

[UmaroVI]

I was suggesting it for Squee's charisma stream techno, which DOES use Charisma for Fading. Cognitive dissonance insults, meet context insults.
Yes. Tailored pheromones add to Charisma and Social Skill tests. (the implication is that it helps attribute only tests as well as skill tests)
He soaks fading with Resonance + Charisma, making it a Charisma Test.
Because the resonance is not magic, the non-applying clause doesn't make it not work.
In this specific incidence (rules as written, charisma stream), it works. Its horribly abusive and begging for a gm to shoot it down, but it would fly in missions. Otherwise, you are completely correct, and I agree with you.

The way most people read TP is that it adds to tests that use Charisma and a social skill, not Charisma or a social skill.

If you think that shit will fly in missions, you must be off your rocker. I have never met a Missions GM who would let that fly and frankly I'd be embarrassed to try it.

As for a technomancer and ware, it all depends on the stream. Control rigs are a +2 for vehicles. Cerebral boosters add 3 to drain. Pushed and a cyberhand with a nanohive can add 4 to all your hacking and computer related complex forms. I would say its easy to gain more than you lose, but it all depends on how the technomancer is set up. Even the good old cybereye is worthwhile. Trauma dampers help a lot with casual/option threading. Platelets give you some measure of safety when using Overthreading, and they combo nicely. When you look at it mechanically, its actually not that bad. all you have to think of is 'how do I get more than one dice back out of this?'. The problem is you have to cherrypick, because 2 points of loss really isn't worth it, and even with alpha, you can't fit everything.

Control Rigs are, again, only while Jumped In which is really shaky. Nanohives are only while you aren't stressed, and you are probably stressed while doing a lot of this stuff. Cybereyes, what? Why would you take those as a Technomancer? PuSHed and Encephalon are 2 dice, but you're losing 2 dice and a fade resist, so you need PuSHeD+Encephalon+ something worth losing a Fade dice. For Log Technos, that's Cerebral Boosters, but for any other type of techno I don't see it. And things start getting iffy if this lowers your dice pool cap, too.

[Mardrax]

Nanohives are only while you aren't stressed, and you are probably stressed while doing a lot of this stuff.

Charisma stream technos shouldn't be bothered by this too much, what with Composure being half Cha, and dumpstatting Willpower is just asking for it.
Running 3 Composure hits past a GM as an "I have no problem whatsoever channeling this stress into performing optimaly" shouldn't be too much of an issue.

[UmaroVI]

If it was supposed to be a Composure test, it would probably mention that somewhere in the description. If there's 2 ways to interpret something, and one of them is laughably broken, most GMs will go with the other one.

[Mardrax]

If it was supposed to be a Composure test, it would probably mention that somewhere in the description. If there's 2 ways to interpret something, and one of them is laughably broken, most GMs will go with the other one.

*shrug* It gives Cha stream technos a bit of a boost, that Log based technos already have, since Log is easily able to be wared up. Where is this breakage you speak of? (Disregarding the question of any technomancer needing a boost at all) Plus, but that's an IMHO, anything to make Cha less of a relative dumpstat for non-faces.
And really, Composure is about composing yourself, keeping cool, and staying normally functioning under duress. It makes nothing but sense to me.

I'll admit though, firmly houseruling.
But tossing Composure at things to mitigate penalties due to stressfull situations is a houserule I use often. To satisfaction.

[HunterHerne]

*shrug* It gives Cha stream technos a bit of a boost, that Log based technos already have, since Log is easily able to be wared up. Where is this breakage you speak of? (Disregarding the question of any technomancer needing a boost at all) Plus, but that's an IMHO, anything to make Cha less of a relative dumpstat for non-faces.
And really, Composure is about composing yourself, keeping cool, and staying normally functioning under duress. It makes nothing but sense to me.

I might disagree with the Tailored Pheromones (but I do agree the other mental stats should have boosters like logic has), as it should only affect meat world rolls, however, I agree with the Composure test argument. But, then, I ask for a lot of composure rolls from players, when ettiquette doesn't quite fit.

[UmaroVI]

Stupid as much of the matrix is, balance between characters is actually better than any other part of SR4A

Charisma technos are already great, because elves get +2 charisma and nobody gets +logic. Fade resistance is the big power limiter for drain.

Intuition technos for rigging over hacking, Charisma for the opposite, Logic for hacking over rigging but with more flexibility (they'll be less good at the things a cha techno has forms for, but better at everything else).

Of course, this is with CF+skill setting caps. No caps means logic is better at hacking than Charisma by a bit, but at least Charisma gives you facing skills. Logic+skill setting caps makes Logic far, far better than anything else and makes everyone else suck.

Willpower technos unfortunately just blow no matter what. They are the ones who could really use a bone.

Technos vs. Hackers is actually pretty balanced too. Hackers can do stuff besides the matrix; technos are better at the matrix.

[Cain]

Going back to the original topic (mainly because I have little to add on otaku) people have glossed over autosofts but not really hit on them. Autosofts are incredibly powerful and relatively cheap, they're practically free dice. Clearsight in particular is just insane, a huge benefit for any drone. I don't recall if this is a house invention or a canon one, but I have the equivalent of a Stealth autosoft available to drones, so they can hide from normal detection methods.

And never underestimate what a drone can do. I've seen a mini-blimp stealth drone spend a few actions aiming with a sniper rifle, the end result was messy.

[KarmaInferno]

Plus Profession autosofts are a LOT cheaper than skillwires even if they only go up to 4.

Even in autonomous mode, a drone with upgraded Pilot and perhaps Fuzzy Logic and Adaptability can be throwing a lot of dice at Technical and Knowledge skills.

Means less BP and karma the rigger needs to spend on skills. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)





-k

[squee_nabob]

This is long and directed towards Udoshi, so I figured I would spoiler it to not take up page space

[ Spoiler ]

Excellent. Your original post came off as really ignorant of the nuances of the system - but i can see that's not quite true.

Yeah, you are misunderstanding me. Biowires lets you learn Skillwares as complex forms, and lets you translate existing Active/Skillsofts, and then learn them through Emulation. Emulation has been heavily nerfed in that you cannot increase the rating of an Emulated CF at all - including threading. In return, its hella cheap on the karma.
Tutor sprites comes with Skillsofts. Which you can run on your biowires. The sprite teaches you its Skillsoft at the usual karma cost. Lets say: Activesoft for Gunnery. The key distinction is that machine sprite have AUTOsofts, and that tutor sprites have ACTIVEsofts, which is why you may be confused.
The major implication here is that you can thread up your Gunnery soft now. Because you didn't learn it through emulation, it doesn't have any of the associated penalties or advantages. It opens up the door to truly ridiculous shenanigans, in which a techno can roll program+program for tasks on the matrix, threading both halves of his dice pool up.


You're wrong about ware on a techno, though - you can get more bonus dice than penalties from 1 point of essence loss. Losing 1 point of resonance is only 1 dice off your complex forms. You can easily get back the dice you lost with ware. The problem is basically breaks the BP bank to do so, when you have to build a techno and pay for a bunch of ware. Its more something to work towards


What you're doing with your charisma-stream techno( i was WONDERING why info savants were on the top of your list) is more about extremely breaking the system than decent tricks or an explanation of mechanics. The only downside to healing and first aiding up threading damage is that it doesn't happen instantly
Fortunately, i can help with that too.
I would suggest taking some Tailored Pheromones to increase your charisma and help with soaking fading damage. They don't help with Magical abilities and tests - good thing the Resonance isn't!
If you haven't already learned a Software Creation Suite as a complex form, I suggest you do so. Recursive threading dice pools are an amazing thing.

However, since technomancers are unable to process active skillsoft programs, they have to convert them into complex form-like programs to interpret and process them in their “language” by emulation (see p. 149)

(bold mine)

Technomancers with the Biowire echo can use threading to convert skillsofts (in storage accessible to the technomancer) into complex forms that their neuromuscular system can process.

You cannot run a skillsoft directly from a Tutor Sprite. You must emulate it. As you noted, you cannot increase an emulated complex form with threading. I do not see how you can increase an emulated skill soft with threading, or how you can run a skillsoft in biowires without emulating it. Even if it is already a CF, you need to emulate it into a “complex form-like” version that “[your] neuromuscular system can process”. This seems clear to me.

I forgot to mention that I use missions dice pool rules, so maximal dice caps are more important to me, and reducing resonance reduces maximum natural CF which reduces the maximum dice pool cap. I do agree a single point of ware can give more than a +2 bonus to matrix actions. You can see Umaro’s responses more details. If you aren’t playing with a DP cap, then the ware is worth it

Info Savants made the list because intuition TMs make good riggers. Smaller soak pool but faster initiative which is important. Technoshammans are the Charisma Stream. Also I did not realize healing fade with first aid and magic was extremely breaking the system. I also use Swap 2 to sustain multiple threads without penalty, which may be part of it. Usually when you are hacking though, the rest of the team isn’t doing things because you are trying to achieve matrix overwatch prior to infiltration.

As far as Tailored Pheromones, I can see how you got your interpretation:

Tailored pheromones add their rating as a dice pool modifier to Charisma and Social Skill Tests. This bonus has no effect on magical abilities and tests.

I always thought that meant [tests that use both Charisma and a Social Skill] but you read it to mean [Charisma tests and Social Skill Tests] (which includes things like Judge Intentions or Composure). That does make it a good deal for Charisma TMs if you are not worried about lowering your maximum DP cap. We both agree that Technomancy is not magic.

I had not looked inot Software Creation Suites as a Complex Form and I thank you for brinigng it to my attention.

The rating of a programming suite acts as a positive dice pool modifier for any programming or upgrading test (but not cracking).

Threading is not a programming or upgrading test (neither of those tests are discussed under Threading in SR4A or in Unwired). Thus I do not interpret programming suites to add to Threading. If you interpret Threading to be a programming or upgrading test, please direct me to the relevant portion of the rules so I can agree with you.