[X] My Assistant

[Faelan]

and this is basically all that i find wrong with the current writing of shadowrun in one single posting . .

Indeed, I am particularly perplexed about how Aina Dupree is a Mary Sue. Perhaps if a Mary Sue is a character an author loves to write some seriously sick twisted near snuff flick level porn for, only to let the character narrowly escape a death, so they can live through their fate worse than death again on the morrow.

[Smirnov]

and this is basically all that i find wrong with the current writing of shadowrun in one single posting . .

You mean what happened to Aina or my attitude towards her? Hardly Aina is current writing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
To be frank, I'm a bit puzzled with Meiers' reaction over there. If I wasn't sure of myself, I would have thought that maybe I spat on his grandmother's grave or something like that. Probably it's me being non-native speaker and says something dumb.

[Stahlseele]

You mean what happened to Aina or my attitude towards her? Hardly Aina is current writing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
To be frank, I'm a bit puzzled with Meiers' reaction over there. If I wasn't sure of myself, I would have thought that maybe I spat on his grandmother's grave or something like that. Probably it's me being non-native speaker and says something dumb.

No no, your attitude is okay . .
Meiers and Neurosis on the other hand . .

[Bull]

For whatever it's worth, I get James and Nuerosis' reactions, but don't necessarily share them. Even characters like Harlequin I can have fun with. Characters need to die sometimes, and it should serve the greater story. ANd in this case, I think it will. Harley will have an interesting reaction to Dupree's death, I think.

Keep in mind that anything posted to forums is the authors personal opinion, as a fan. And this opinion doesn't (and shouldn't) carry over into their work. This is why we have a line developer, and this is why things get discussed among the freelance staff behind the scenes.

Bull

[CanRay]

That's what I always loved about Shadowrun: The Status Quo Is Not The Rule! Things get shaken up all the time! Megas fall! Dragons die! NERPS continues to get newer, better, and with less aftertaste!

People die. It's the nature of being alive, we're all dying. It's just when and how that the question comes into play.

...

That, and how big a splash it'll be in the news. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Stahlseele]

People die. It's the nature of being alive, we're all dying.

Immortal Elf!
You!
Me!
Him!
Her!

Death is for other people . .

[CanRay]

So? Old age won't get us.

So many other ways to die. 99 ways to die at least.

[Stahlseele]

something just occured to me:
Has ANY OTHER immortal elf bought the farm yet? O.o
Or are Dragons the only immortals that die?

[CanRay]

That's what happens when you sleep thought things like World Wars, instead of living through them.

[Sengir]

I've not read this entry in a while, so I might be misremembering, but I think another interpretation of this is that Puck believes that Deus is back and after him, and Icarus casually mentioned that belief.

Icarus states something to the effect of "since Deus and Pax are still round, he really is in hot water now". And except for two shadowtalkers (one of whom is like "need a hand with your revenge?"), the assembled hacker luminaries don't even seem to notice...because when have mad AIs or Ex Pacis ever raised eyebrows? Since Emergence we know that everybody is totally cool on that issue...

But speaking of Emergence, maybe they're just going to pull the "surprise, nobody knew about that stuff until now"-stunt again...

@hermit

It's another case of incoherent characterisation.

Uhm, where is the inconsistency, again?

[Smirnov]

For whatever it's worth, I get James and Nuerosis' reactions, but don't necessarily share them. Even characters like Harlequin I can have fun with. Characters need to die sometimes, and it should serve the greater story. And in this case, I think it will. Harley will have an interesting reaction to Dupree's death, I think.

That is absolutely right. That's the point of having a developing setting - things change, and sometimes someone has to die. And I don't object to the fact that Aina died. I'm surprised to the point of shock, but what's happened - happened. Personally I feel bad for Aina. Mostly because of who she was. I never really shared her views, and I always thought that majority of her problems were her own doing. Inability to come to term with her son, for example. But I always shared a great deal of sympathy for her and what she had to go through. And one man once said, that you can laugh at village idiot or despise him, but you never kill him. But these are my feeling, no more, no less. Now I want to get Artifacts Unbound even more, and I hope the reaction to the fact would be appropriate.

Keep in mind that anything posted to forums is the authors personal opinion, as a fan. And this opinion doesn't (and shouldn't) carry over into their work. This is why we have a line developer, and this is why things get discussed among the freelance staff behind the scenes.

And that's what I can't agree with. Firstly, and I know it from personal experience and you know too, a moderator is always a moderator. You can't leave your uniform in the dresser and become a regular Joe Citizen. The same goes for administrators and to much extent for any face. The authors of the books are still authors of the books, even in casual chit-chats, especially if they chat to their readers and more so if they chat about the books they wrote. That's my personal opinion, again, and I can't hope to bring all people to think the same, but I think the professional should keep his cool in any sitution.
Secondly, and thats my opinion again, I believe that you can't really do anything good if you don't love what you're doing. Fictional characters included.

I hope I didn't sound rude or accusing, all that is, I stress again, only my point of view.

something just occured to me:
Has ANY OTHER immortal elf bought the farm yet? O.o
Or are Dragons the only immortals that die?

As far as I know, Aina is the first.

[Neurosis]

No no, your attitude is okay . .
Meiers and Neurosis on the other hand . .

I guess I must be going into politics or something, because I actually just posted a public apology. It's over on the official forums if you'd like to read it, chummer. : )

And that's what I can't agree with. Firstly, and I know it from personal experience and you know too, a moderator is always a moderator. You can't leave your uniform in the dresser and become a regular Joe Citizen. The same goes for administrators and to much extent for any face. The authors of the books are still authors of the books, even in casual chit-chats, especially if they chat to their readers and more so if they chat about the books they wrote. That's my personal opinion, again, and I can't hope to bring all people to think the same, but I think the professional should keep his cool in any sitution.
Secondly, and thats my opinion again, I believe that you can't really do anything good if you don't love what you're doing. Fictional characters included.

If you're right, I'm definitely going to have to post less to avoid any future slip-ups.

I'm still too used to having fan-position leniency. When you're a fan, you're allowed to say "Aina Dupree was a dumb character", and with all the privileges of being a writer, you lose that right. In any case, even if that were my opinion, I hope you can understand it would not detrimentally effect my work. I have too much respect for the SR universe for that.

[Stahlseele]

I guess I must be going into politics or something, because I actually just posted a public apology. It's over on the official forums if you'd like to read it, chummer. : )



If you're right, I'm definitely going to have to post less to avoid any future slip-ups.

I'm still too used to having fan-position leniency.

Yes, i actually read and allready answered . . sorry, but that blatant arrogance and disregard of what can be considered pretty important to the setting/universe sent me flying off my handle (is that correct?)
and yes, i actually do forget about the personal opinion/writer stuff too . . mea culpa x.x

[Smirnov]

If you're right, I'm definitely going to have to post less to avoid any future slip-ups.

I'm still too used to having fan-position leniency.

That's still my opinion, you have the full right to disagree with it! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Sengir]

Characters need to die sometimes, and it should serve the greater story.

The second half is what is important to me: Important characters should die on occasion, because otherwise the story gets increasingly unbelievable. I finished The Passage a couple of weeks and go, and towards the end was simply annoyed by the constant miraculous escapes and _surprising_ returns of MIAs. Important characters should even fear a completely unspectacular death, in reality most important people don't die in heroic rear guard actions, either.
However, if somebody with the clout of an IE heading an AA corp dies, it should have a major effect on the story. You can't remind players of possible consequences should they go around killing everyone if big figures die and nothing happens.

[Neurosis]

It was not my intention to imply her death would not have appropriate in-universe consequences (it will).

Honestly, tl;dr it was a stupid, stupid comment made with 0 forethought and nothing'd make me happier than if we could just forget it.

[Critias]

However, if somebody with the clout of an IE heading an AA corp dies, it should have a major effect on the story. You can't remind players of possible consequences should they go around killing everyone if big figures die and nothing happens.

It does. Again, a few passages of text just got released in the wrong order, due to some publication issues with a couple products that were supposed to be out before Street Legends, that are coming out after it, now.

Aina's not quietly dying to lung cancer and prompting Caimbeul to stop smoking, just before a The More You Know! logo flies across the screen or something. It's some big, and some badass, and some important shit that's going down, dealing with lots of the big names and magical power players and stuff. She doesn't go quietly in bed, she's right in the thick of some major events.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

It does. Again, a few passages of text just got released in the wrong order, due to some publication issues with a couple products that were supposed to be out before Street Legends, that are coming out after it, now.

Aina's not quietly dying to lung cancer and prompting Caimbeul to stop smoking, just before a The More You Know! logo flies across the screen or something. It's some big, and some badass, and some important shit that's going down, dealing with lots of the big names and magical power players and stuff. She doesn't go quietly in bed, she's right in the thick of some major events.

Good to hear. Can't wait... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Nath]

I'm still too used to having fan-position leniency. When you're a fan, you're allowed to say "Aina Dupree was a dumb character", and with all the privileges of being a writer, you lose that right. In any case, even if that were my opinion, I hope you can understand it would not detrimentally effect my work. I have too much respect for the SR universe for that.

Voicing it his okay, but in that case I don't think it helps explaining why it happened.

With my small experience as a freelancer, I'd say authors should stay away from characters and plots they dislike. SR universe is large enough for that. If they try to get rid of them, it will be at the expense of those (players and possibly other authors) who enjoyed it. Of course, sometimes you can't avoid it. If someone really wanted to write on the Draco Foundation and Nadja Daviar, Aina Dupré was standing in the way.

On the other hand, writing about characters simply because you like the result in your average "Mary-Sue" fan fiction. In the end, the only good reason that can be to write something is : "because it makes a good story". If it doesn't, it doesn't worth writing anything in the first place. Unless, of course, the company really needs one hundred pages of anything to release for GenCon (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I should know, a good part of the work on Shadows of Europe was about deciding what we would simply ignore from the old France sourcebook. And as a gamemaster, I'm still struggling on how to make a great story of Esprit Industries takeover by Aztechnology/Dassault. That was my pet corp, but still, I'll try to seize the opportunity to make it a memorable event (and show what Lofwyr chessgame can be like).

[Neurosis]

With my small experience as a freelancer, I'd say authors should stay away from characters and plots they dislike.

Not to pass the buck, but I have to date written exactly 0 words about Aina Dupree. I specifically stayed away from all of the Street Legends that I was not a big fan of either; in that case, though, it was more a question of not feeling confident enough in my familiarity with the subject matter to take a crack at them.

But I know this response was probably not fully necessary, as not every comment everyone makes is necessarily directed at me personally. : )

[hobgoblin]

Yea those old euro books had a certain level of "better then core SR, simply because"...

[Stahlseele]

Yea those old euro books had a certain level of "better then core SR, simply because"...

because we're german.

[Fatum]

because we're german.

'31 is drawing nearer, we'll get even for everything yet.

[Stahlseele]

'31 is drawing nearer, we'll get even for everything yet.

no comprende

[Fatum]

31? First Euro-War? Still nothing?