[X] My Assistant

[Neurosis]

I think it was a Shadowrun reference.

[Blitz66]

I think it was a Shadowrun reference.

Why would anyone expect people to pick up on those here? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Stahlseele]

31? First Euro-War? Still nothing?

ah that.
sorry, i am really bad with remembering dates and numbers in general <.<

[hermit]

To be frank, I'm a bit puzzled with Meiers' reaction over there.

Given that he brought us the Nadia, apparently ... well, the word we're looking for is "idiot".

And this opinion doesn't (and shouldn't) carry over into their work. This is why we have a line developer

Not to disrespect wny of what you say, Bull, but that sentence makes my eyes bleed. But yes, it sums up perfectly what a Line Developer should do, if not what Jason does.

Suffice to say, the Line Dev's job should begin with choosing freelancers to contribute.

Uhm, where is the inconsistency, again?

Read the dog totem's descriptions, think of the number of mwomen Twist ditches. Consider the number of pacifists who embed themselves with the US special forces. And that's not even beginning with the absolutly bizarre excuse for dumping Tsung for Hart (who, by the way, isn't quite a pacifist), or his willingness to sacrifice dozens of people to maybe cure his sister. Very pacifist thing, those human sacrifices.

Now I want to get Artifacts Unbound even more, and I hope the reaction to the fact would be appropriate.

Did Meiers have any part in writing Artifacts Unbound?

The second half is what is important to me: Important characters should die on occasion, because otherwise the story gets increasingly unbelievable.

Of coruse, killing off major characters too frequently, or illing the wrong major characters, isn't quite a good idea either. Take George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire as an example. This series is liek the most lethal fantasy novel, ever. There are more survivors in the 40K heresy novels than there. To the point where there just isn't any character left I care for. They're all either dead or so fucked up by the horrors they were put through I just shrug about them.

Shadowrun is going the same direction, only a lot less elaboratly planned (though admittedly at a faster pace than one book every seven years).

And seriously, Aina Dupree is more annoying than Nadia "luscious brown nipples" Daviar? Is there some reason behind that, or is this just a dismissive comment because you felt entitled to them?

In the end, the only good reason that can be to write something is : "because it makes a good story".

And that's really not what I see happening at CGL.

I should know, a good part of the work on Shadows of Europe was about deciding what we would simply ignore from the old France sourcebook.

And then came Attitude and not la terre Lakota de France is international canon, too (see Cree&Dido for details).

[CanRay]

A German, bad at math? Who'd have thunk it? Next you'll be telling me you don't overengineer everything, Stahl. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Stahlseele]

A German, bad at math? Who'd have thunk it? Next you'll be telling me you don't overengineer everything, Stahl. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

*looks around*
dude, i am sitting here, with 6 computers in arms reach ^^
math just is an asshole <.<
never been good with numbers of any kind ._.
if i weren't lazy as fuck, i'd be speaking 5 languages fluent by now instead i guess . .
i am more of a DO kind of guy than a THINK kind of guy i'm afraid x.x
and i have the sense of direction edge. if i listen to my feet, they tell me where i am and where to go.
i have only got lost ONCE in my life. and that was because they tore down buildings that i expected to still be there ;_;
my brain is just wired a bit different, i guess O.o

[CanRay]

This is Dumpshock, the Internet, and People Like Us, Stahl.

We're all wired differently. It's what makes us such good company here.

[Stahlseele]

i'd drink to that!

[Nath]

We keep talking abut Dupré and Daviar, and it's like everybody carefully avoid to talk about Ryan Mercury (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

And then came Attitude and not la terre Lakota de France is international canon, too (see Cree&Dido for details).

There really is in southern France a track of land the owner donated to the Lakota Nation in 1991. France Sourcebook only make it much larger. I don't know if the Lakota Republic care for it though. And considering US bashing have been even more popular in France these days than French bashing can be in the US, it wouldn't be surprising to have French NGO welcoming tribal people fleeing the Reeducation and Relocation Act between 2009 and 2017.

The way Attitude mentions the Lakota-French fictional character doesn't say anything about a Lakota Land in France. People who know about it may link the two. But those who don't will just think he has one Lakota and one French parent. Those who don't want the Lakota Land to exist in their game should simply do the same. Maybe the author never reads France and simply is a fan of actress Karina Lombard.

[Sengir]

Read the dog totem's descriptions, think of the number of mwomen Twist ditches.

Dog does not leave people behind, that's different from ending a non-platonic relationship. Also, dogs are not exactly known for being monogamous...

Consider the number of pacifists who embed themselves with the US special forces. And that's not even beginning with the absolutly bizarre excuse for dumping Tsung for Hart (who, by the way, isn't quite a pacifist), or his willingness to sacrifice dozens of people to maybe cure his sister. Very pacifist thing, those human sacrifices.

Already addressed this:

So one has to be a pacifist to refuse killing people in cold blood during a B&E job? Sounds more like generally accepted (IRL) morality to me. Even among the various varieties of intentional homicide, offing someone to facilitate or cover another crime is usually considered to be particularly bad.

[CanRay]

Dog does not leave people behind, that's different from ending a non-platonic relationship. Also, dogs are not exactly known for being monogamous...

Imagine how bad it would be if he had been an (Alley) Cat Shaman? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Sengir]

Like sleeves of wizard cat shaman (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Demonseed Elite]

Voicing it his okay, but in that case I don't think it helps explaining why it happened.

With my small experience as a freelancer, I'd say authors should stay away from characters and plots they dislike. SR universe is large enough for that. If they try to get rid of them, it will be at the expense of those (players and possibly other authors) who enjoyed it. Of course, sometimes you can't avoid it. If someone really wanted to write on the Draco Foundation and Nadja Daviar, Aina Dupré was standing in the way.

On the other hand, writing about characters simply because you like the result in your average "Mary-Sue" fan fiction. In the end, the only good reason that can be to write something is : "because it makes a good story". If it doesn't, it doesn't worth writing anything in the first place. Unless, of course, the company really needs one hundred pages of anything to release for GenCon (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I should know, a good part of the work on Shadows of Europe was about deciding what we would simply ignore from the old France sourcebook. And as a gamemaster, I'm still struggling on how to make a great story of Esprit Industries takeover by Aztechnology/Dassault. That was my pet corp, but still, I'll try to seize the opportunity to make it a memorable event (and show what Lofwyr chessgame can be like).

As a writer, I stayed away from plenty of characters and plots I disliked, so I agree with Nath on this. And the Line Developer should always be there to steer the writing towards a good story instead of any writer's personal feelings on a character or idea. I know I wanted to kill many an immortal elf, but unless I had a damn good story reason for it, I never even brought it up, because it'd be silly.

Though I also think Shadowrun's metaplot has gotten so tangled and massive that it's getting very hard for the writers to avoid characters and plots they don't like. I know I had trouble with it towards the end and found myself avoiding more writing opportunities than I'd take because I didn't want to touch this idea or the other.

On the Matrix, everyone should lie about their looks a little, or at least their icon should be a metaphorical interpretation of their self interpretation, yet Puck is exactly as he seems; which is totally antithetical to his character.

If his icon was a silver hair waif and his real life body was a chubby, pale Eastender, that would be one thing; yet something got lost in the translation in one of the modern Sixth World's most notorious characters.

Otaku do lie about their looks a little, but it's a self-idealization still firmly rooted in their physical appearance. I know Puck's picture in Street Legends is actually very close to how I always imagined him and I think Renraku Arcology: Shutdown's authors probably imagined him similarly. I know it matches up pretty closely to descriptions Dave Hyatt gave me way back when we were working on Brainscan. I always imagined real-life Puck as being paler, skinnier, and having a constant nervous edge that came from growing up in the Squeeze in London, but otherwise looking similar to his icon. And though it's not mentioned in Street Legends, it was Dave that originally came up with Puck's attraction to the ocean in a piece of fiction that got cut from Brainscan, though I resurrected the idea of it in the fiction for System Failure.

[Troyminator]

This is Dumpshock, the Internet, and People Like Us, Stahl.

We're all wired differently. It's what makes us such good company here.

Amen, Brother!

[Troyminator]

Thorn writing a gear book would quickly degenerate into "Blah blah blah ultra heavy pistol blah blah blah full auto capable blah blah eight billion round magazine blah blah blah. Big deal! Who needs all that? When I was 23, I killed seven men with a five-shot holdout. I shot five of them in the brain because I know how to fucking aim, threw the gun at the next one, and strangled the third. YOU DAMNED KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN."

Grandpa, is that you? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Troyminator]

so . . you want SOTA Rules back?

What does SOTA mean?

[Medicineman]

What does SOTA mean?

State of the Art
These are (useless, funkilling ) Rules for degradation of Programs and Equipment
Something we call Hartwurst in Germany if used excessively



He who won't dance with Hartwurst
Medicineman

[hermit]

Dog does not leave people behind, that's different from ending a non-platonic relationship.

It's not like he remained friends with Tsung. But I suppose you can rationalise that, too.

Already addressed this:

And it's as wrong as when you first wrote it. If you are a pacifist, you will not work in an environment where shooting people to cover up your crimes is an accepted and occasionally necessary strategy to solve problems on the job. Or, at the very least, you will try to prevent it. And you certainly will not engage in large-scale sacrificial magic to maybe cure your sister.

But yeah, you go on rationalising. I think I'm done here.

[Sengir]

If you are a pacifist

Repeat after me: He. Is. No. Pacifist.

Is it so hard to get that someone who refuses to kill someone for pleasure, for sexual gratification, out of greed or otherwise base motives, by stealth or cruelly or by means that pose a danger to the public or in order to facilitate or to cover up another offence (German penal code for murder) does not automatically have to subscribe to the belief that war and violence are unjustifiable and that all disputes should be settled by peaceful means (Oxford)?


@Demonseed: Looks like I also read too much into things, I always considered the story about Puck's beach retreat a nod to Neuromancer...

[Grinder]

Hermit, Sengir: play nice.

[Fatum]

Is it so hard to get that someone who refuses to kill someone for pleasure, for sexual gratification, out of greed or otherwise base motives, by stealth or cruelly or by means that pose a danger to the public or in order to facilitate or to cover up another offence (German penal code for murder)

So, in Germany, killing someone defending yourself is not murder?

[HunterHerne]

So, in Germany, killing someone defending yourself is not murder?

Well, isn't it true that in (some places in) the US, there is an allowance for lethal violence, if you are in the defence of a third party?
So, is it so hard to believe other places might have reasonable allowances?

[Stahlseele]

So, in Germany, killing someone defending yourself is not murder?

by law, technically, no, it's not. that's legalese for you . .

[Prime Mover]

Did the Moonlight Thorns serve Lugh Surehand? I "remember" seeing that revealed somewhere but now I can't find it.

[Sengir]

So, in Germany, killing someone defending yourself is not murder?

Yep...always priceless to see the look on peoples' faces when they learn that in the land of the trigger-happy cowboys*, self-defence can get you on death row.

As per Section 32 of the StGB, any action which is necessary to end an imminent and unlawful attack on oneself or others is legal. Note that this attack does not even have to be against the person, "defensible legal goods" also include stuff like your property and freedom of person.
And even if you used more force than necessary, the attack was not imminent, or it was not illegal, you might get of the hook: Section 33 states that someone acting out of fear or confusion will not be punished (though it technically remains illegal).

PS: What's also often confusing (and leading to crappy comparisons between muder rates) is that the German definition of "murder" is far narrower than elsewhere. The "default offence" for intentional homicide is manslaughter (>5 years, life in severe cases), only if one of the "murder motives" I quoted in response to hermit is met does the defendant get a free upgrade to murder (and life).

*: For those who don't get it

[ Spoiler ]

I'm paraphrasing people's opinions