[X] My Assistant

[Aerospider]

The exception being Mentor spirits that truly value their followers. I can't risk the details, but I do have a planned encounter using such a mentor spirit that has, as much as spirits can, a strong emotional connection to the mage in question. I'm willing to concede details in PM if anybody is REALLY curious as to why that would occur.

Maybe these details (which I'm not seeking) contain some campaign-specific shenanigans (in which case fine, whatever) but mentor spirits are not spirits in this context. They can't be summoned, bound, banished, commanded, fought, stunbolted, or anything really. They're a completely different and unique phenomenon so they're no kind of exception to anything.

[phlapjack77]

Maybe you're thinking of Spirit Affinity, Rubic? If a character had this Quality and summoned the spirit type, it should definitely have a more favorable view towards using Edge in any way that might help the character.

[Rubic]

It's mission specific shenanigans. Also, used the wrong term, should have said a pacted free-spirit mentor.

[Amazeroth]

EDIT: nevermind, my post was stupid

[Machiavelli]

Hasn´t there been a discussion regarding the use of banishing as a version of "spell-defense" against spirit powers? In this case, this skill would be highly valuable.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Hasn´t there been a discussion regarding the use of banishing as a version of "spell-defense" against spirit powers? In this case, this skill would be highly valuable.

Indeed there has been discussion on such options (not sure in which topic, however). It would be interesting to see that in game, as it would make the skill a bit more useful in combating spirits and their abilities. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Ascalaphus]

I agree Banishing should be a good skill. It's too bad it isn't.. as a resistance against critter powers might be interesting.

On the whole though, I'd just prefer a way to actually Banish spirits that's competitive with Stunbolt and SnS.

[Draco18s]

On the whole though, I'd just prefer a way to actually Banish spirits that's competitive with Stunbolt and SnS.

Halve the drain and/or double the number of services gotten with each net hit.

Or

Services lost = hits (not net hits) and drain is the hits the spirit gets on its test. So rather than a standard opposed test, it's more like two crosswise attacks passing by each other.
* Would likely need a threshold, like healing. Half-force?

[PittsburghRPGA]

From SR4A, page 295:

Immunity
A critter with Immunity has an enhanced resistance to a certain type of attack or affliction. The critter gains an “Armor rating” equal to twice its Magic against that damage. This Immunity Armor is treated as “hardened” protection (see Hardened Armor above), meaning that if the Damage Value does not exceed the Armor, then the attack automatically does no damage. Additionally, this “armor rating” is added to the damage resistance test as normal armor.
Immunity to Normal Weapons: This immunity applies to all weapons that are not magical (weapon foci, spells, adept or critter powers). If the critter has the Allergy weakness, then the Immunity does not apply against non-magical attacks made using the allergen.

Perhaps I'm not understanding what some of you are saying (or perhaps I'm reading something else incorrectly). How is stick n shock ammo by passing that? It's not magical, it's quite mundane in fact. Just because it does electrical damage, it's still non-magical electrical damage. I don't see how you can possibly say Stick N Shock ignores this. Honestly, SnS is powerful enough already without giving it "magical" spirit slaying powers.

Cordially,

Eric
Pittsburgh

[Draco18s]

Perhaps I'm not understanding what some of you are saying (or perhaps I'm reading something else incorrectly). How is stick n shock ammo by passing that?

AP -half.

[UmaroVI]

It doesn't bypass it, but it still halves the armor (electrical attacks, even mundane ones, do that for all armor), so it's easy to do enough damage with SnS ammo to exceed the Hardened Armor. The spirit still gets to roll (half) the ITNW value to soak the damage, but it's still pretty easy to taser a spirit into unconsciousness.

[KarmaInferno]

Which doesn't make sense if you know how tasers work in real life, but apparently Shadowrun tasers are special.

My home games, standard tasers only work on biological targets. There are, on the other hand, "thunder guns", which are high amperage electrical weapons designed to kill rather than stun.



-k

[Ascalaphus]

From SR4A, page 295:


Perhaps I'm not understanding what some of you are saying (or perhaps I'm reading something else incorrectly). How is stick n shock ammo by passing that? It's not magical, it's quite mundane in fact. Just because it does electrical damage, it's still non-magical electrical damage. I don't see how you can possibly say Stick N Shock ignores this. Honestly, SnS is powerful enough already without giving it "magical" spirit slaying powers.

Cordially,

Eric
Pittsburgh

Hey (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

It's a common source of confusion on the forum (every few months or so). What you need to look at is the description of Hardened Armor (because ItNW gives Hardened Armor):

Hardened Armor
Type: P • Action: Auto • Range: Self • Duration: Always
Hardened Armor is even tougher than normal armor. If the
modified Damage Value of an attack does not exceed the Armor
rating (modified by Armor Penetration), then it bounces harmlessly
off the critter; don’t even bother to make a Damage Resistance Test.
Otherwise, Hardened Armor provides both Ballistic and Impact armor
equal to its rating.

Now, SnS has "AP -half", which means that say, a Force 6 spirit applies only an effective Hardened Armor of 6 against the SnS's base DV of 6, plus whatever hits were gotten on the shooting. As long as at least 1 net hit was achieved on the To-Hit test, that means the ItNW gets penetrated.

I'm not saying this is very intuitive - spirits, supposedly nearly immune to physical weapons, easily at the mercy of a fairly common type of ammo. It happens to be RAW, and for non-Awakened characters it means they have a fighting chance against spirits.

For Banishing however, it rather raises the bar; supposedly, Banishing should be the skill to use against spirits, but in practice it's not nearly as good as Pistols...

[Neraph]

Which doesn't make sense if you know how tasers work in real life, but apparently Shadowrun tasers are special.

You need a little Suspention of Disbelief to play a game with spellslinging trolls carsurfing while avoiding dragons is all I'm saying.

[Yerameyahu]

The problem is that magic is supposed to be believed, but science is supposed to be reasonable. You can't use that argument.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

The problem is that magic is supposed to be believed, but science is supposed to be reasonable. You can't use that argument.

Looks believable to me... Spirits take damage from Electrcity.
Looks reasonable to me... Electricity has Half AP.

What's the issue? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Neraph]

Hey, it worked in the Dresden Files. Harry threw a length of copper chain around one of the Denarians and plugged it into a wall.

[Yerameyahu]

Tymeaus, I don't care about tasers. I was addressing the (recurrent) argument that Neraph mentioned: 'it's a game with magic, therefore shut up'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) In any case, 'reasonable' doesn't mean 'cite an arbitrary *game rule*'. It means scientific things work scientifically; that is, realistically. However that reality is reflected in game rules is another story.

[Neraph]

It could be some unexplained interaction about how natural energies are somehow tied to the natural energies that create spirits. Actual electrical currents and actual flames actually disrupt the energy matrices of spirits, thereby they don't lose their -1/2 AP against their ItNW.

Shh.

[Yerameyahu]

See, now *that's* an argument I can get behind. Tech the tech to the tech! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Tymeaus, I don't care about tasers. I was addressing the (recurrent) argument that Neraph mentioned: 'it's a game with magic, therefore shut up'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) In any case, 'reasonable' doesn't mean 'cite an arbitrary *game rule*'. It means scientific things work scientifically; that is, realistically. However that reality is reflected in game rules is another story.

Ahhhh... My Misunderstanding... Carry on. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

See, now *that's* an argument I can get behind. Tech the tech to the tech!

And yet, it was just so much technobabble, with no real meaning whatsoever. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Ascalaphus]

I tend to envision spirits as a blob of ectoplasm with a tough outer layer (the ItNW); AP attacks work because they penetrate the outer layer.

Of course, that's just finding an IC explanation of the effects of a game rule. But it makes my life easier.

[BishopMcQ]

For Dresden--The Denarians inhabit a human host, so they still have a nervous system. Spirits specifically do not which is why they can't use AR. Not really sure why, but that's the way it was written.

I've found Banishing to be useful in fringe cases where a powerful initiate has summoned a F8 or higher spirit. Especially if the mage has active counterspelling, the spirit has Magical Guard, or there's an Ally spirit around. It's an actual character that I played who's main job was just to neutralize enemy mages while the rest of the team killed them. Again though, it's a fringe case.

[Yerameyahu]

That's the point, Tymeaus. It's honestly technobabble, instead of just saying, 'turn off your brain for *everything*, there's magic somewhere'. In that specific case, it's interaction with the magic aspect, so it's okay.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

That's the point, Tymeaus. It's honestly technobabble, instead of just saying, 'turn off your brain for *everything*, there's magic somewhere'. In that specific case, it's interaction with the magic aspect, so it's okay.

Heh.... I guess. I just do not see that much of a difference is all. It works because it works, who cares how. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)