Flight Skill, Sort it out! Options

[Aerospider]

Does anybody have a good houserule for the Flight skill? I have issues with the (mechanical) parrallel RAW draws with the Running skill.

For one thing, the critter is flying when using either speed value. So can they use this skill at the 'walking' rate? I assume not and it's just been poorly labelled, but it bugs me none-the-less.

More importantly, why is it so comapratively ineffective? When sprinting you gain 2 metres in a single combat turn per hit, which is a little weak for a single combat turn but can conceivably make a difference and over several turns will add up. But have you seen how quickly most flying critters can 'run' normally? I've just been building an eagle shapeshifter and assumed I would be interested in the Flying skill, but with an 80m per turn base rate I can come up with hundreds of BPs-worth of expenditure I'd rather lay out for (especially considering that fatigue may be an issue). Dragons can make good use of it purely by virtue of their insane Strength ratings, but pixies and spirits also don't have a good proportional benefit. Would 4m per hit be reasonable?

And why can fliers only 'sprint' when diving?

And shouldn't diving provide its own bonus already?

[DamienKnight]

Does anybody have a good houserule for the Flight skill? I have issues with the (mechanical) parrallel RAW draws with the Running skill.

For one thing, the critter is flying when using either speed value. So can they use this skill at the 'walking' rate? I assume not and it's just been poorly labelled, but it bugs me none-the-less.

More importantly, why is it so comapratively ineffective? When sprinting you gain 2 metres in a single combat turn per hit, which is a little weak for a single combat turn but can conceivably make a difference and over several turns will add up. But have you seen how quickly most flying critters can 'run' normally? I've just been building an eagle shapeshifter and assumed I would be interested in the Flying skill, but with an 80m per turn base rate I can come up with hundreds of BPs-worth of expenditure I'd rather lay out for (especially considering that fatigue may be an issue). Dragons can make good use of it purely by virtue of their insane Strength ratings, but pixies and spirits also don't have a good proportional benefit. Would 4m per hit be reasonable?

And why can fliers only 'sprint' when diving?

And shouldn't diving provide its own bonus already?

In our group you can use the FLY skill like Gymnastics dodge when flying.

That is a good point about diving. Flapping their wings harder should work to add to running speed, diving should increase it further. A houserule should be considered. Maybe a FLY test can add 2m per success when flying normally, but diving doubles the bonus from FLY successes, to 4m per success?

[KeyMasterOfGozer]

Does anybody have a good houserule for the Flight skill? I have issues with the (mechanical) parrallel RAW draws with the Running skill.

For one thing, the critter is flying when using either speed value. So can they use this skill at the 'walking' rate? I assume not and it's just been poorly labelled, but it bugs me none-the-less.

More importantly, why is it so comapratively ineffective? When sprinting you gain 2 metres in a single combat turn per hit, which is a little weak for a single combat turn but can conceivably make a difference and over several turns will add up. But have you seen how quickly most flying critters can 'run' normally? I've just been building an eagle shapeshifter and assumed I would be interested in the Flying skill, but with an 80m per turn base rate I can come up with hundreds of BPs-worth of expenditure I'd rather lay out for (especially considering that fatigue may be an issue). Dragons can make good use of it purely by virtue of their insane Strength ratings, but pixies and spirits also don't have a good proportional benefit. Would 4m per hit be reasonable?

And why can fliers only 'sprint' when diving?

And shouldn't diving provide its own bonus already?

Actually, a cheetah can run faster than a peregrine falcon can fly unless the falcon is in a dive or swoop. a peregrine falcon doesn't even make it into the top 10 fastest birds in level flight(nor does an eagle), and yet it nearly doubles it's closest competitor (the Spine-tailed swift) when it's in a dive (or swoop as it's also known). Only the top 6 fastest birds are faster than a cheetah runs.

Some fun facts for the discussion.

Edit: I just looked up a site with the fastest stuff listed, enjoy:
Top 10 fastest birds
Top 10 fastest land animals

[Yerameyahu]

I guess I don't understand the question. You're saying that flying critters are already hella fast, so they don't need the Flight skill. … Is that a problem? It's like saying, 'crap, I'm so rich that I can't spend money faster than I make it'.

It makes sense to me that the only way to 'sprint' while flying is to dive, and (as you said) they're already fast enough. It'd be no problem to allow it for normal flight, but it hardly seems worth worrying about.

As for the proportional gain, what about the absolute gain? Two meters is still two meters. Trolls don't get a greater bonus for Sprint tests, nor jet fighters or sports cars versus small drones or slow trucks (they all get a flat +5m with their 'Sprint' tests). Ideally, maybe (or maybe not) percentages would be more realistic, but the system at large clearly doesn't do that.

Some other issues: pixie and spirit flight is pure magic, so maybe they shouldn't be able to 'Sprint' at all, and wouldn't you need a D&D-style maneuver rating (ugh)?

[Draco18s]

If you want to get all....D&D....with it, a little:

Double-speed if flying "down" at a 45 degree angle.
Quadruple-speed if "stooping" (but also make a "crash" test to avoid losing control. Flying + REA (3)?)
Half-speed if flying "up" at a 45 degree angle.
Only creatures with the ability to hover (cough, spirits) may fly strait up.

Notably this doesn't take into account momentum at all, where a stooping bird can continue to fly horizontally or upwards again from the momentum gained from a stoop. Could make a flying test to (Flying + AGL?) to see how many rounds of momentum are retained (halved, if climbing, in addition to half the speed modifier[1]; round up).

As for sprinting tests, I'd say those follow the same rules as sprinting. Each hit on a Flying + Str test adds 2 meters to the per-round total.

[1]So a stoop from a bird with 40 Fly gets 160 meters in 1 combat round. Next round it levels out and begins climbing, making the flying test (4 skill, 5 attribute -> 4 hits). For the next 2 rounds (half for climbing) he moves at 80 meters per round (the 160 speed from the stoop, halved). Due to geometry, this takes him 57 meters horizontally and 57 meters vertically each round.

[Yerameyahu]

Huh? Swoop, or maybe dive?

Draco18s really hammers home my point, though: it only gets more complicated. Yuck.

[Draco18s]

Draco18s really hammers home my point, though: it only gets more complicated. Yuck.

At least you don't need to expect 3D areal melee combat in ShadowRun.
(Who has "high ground"?)

[Yerameyahu]

Whoever has the gun. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Draco18s]

Whoever has the gun. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Never bring a bird to a gunfight.

Wait, what?

And anyway, I thought it would have been the dragon with the upper hand. Paw. Claw. Appendage.

[Yerameyahu]

They have stunbolt cannons, same thing.

[Draco18s]

They have stunbolt cannons, same thing.

I was thinking "I'm bigger than you, om nom nom nom."

[Mardrax]

I was thinking "I'm bigger than you, om nom nom nom."

GDs really need a Ketchupbolt spell.

[Draco18s]

GDs really need a Ketchupbolt spell.

Some might have a Chocolatebolt spell.