Spirit Aid Sorcery = limited counterspelling?, Can this give mundanes a bit of counterspelling? Options

[Psikerlord]

Hey all,

If a spirit is given to a mundane via Loaned Services (p.187 SR4A), can the spirit be ordered to use it's Aid Sorcery power to give a mundane Force worth of counterspelling dice? ... ie, adding it's Force to the zero counterspelling dice the mundane usually has?

An alternate question - ignoring the spirits in Street Magic which get Magical Guard as a power - is there a way to get counterspelling for ordinary SR4 spirits?

Cheers!

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

There are some tables that give Magical Guard/Counterspelling to all spirits, since it makes little sense for the original spirits to not have that ability when all later spirits have it. Not sure how that actually plays out, since our table has yet to do that. Another option I have heard about is that those abilities are added to all spirit's (who do not have it already) Optional Powers.

[Neraph]

If a spirit is given to a mundane via Loaned Services (p.187 SR4A), can the spirit be ordered to use it's Aid Sorcery power to give a mundane Force worth of counterspelling dice? ... ie, adding it's Force to the zero counterspelling dice the mundane usually has?

Unless otherwise noted in the description, only characters with the Magician or Mystic Adept quality and a Magic attribute of 1 or greater may take or use Magic skills.

Emphasis mine. Well, considering that Mundanes cannot use any skill linked to a Magic attribute, having an extra X dice to not be able to use seems more like an insult than anything.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Emphasis mine. Well, considering that Mundanes cannot use any skill linked to a Magic attribute, having an extra X dice to not be able to use seems more like an insult than anything.

However, if the Spirit has Magical Guard/Counterspelling, then he COULD INDEED provide counterspelling to the Mundane. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[TheOOB]

However, if the Spirit has Magical Guard/Counterspelling, then he COULD INDEED provide counterspelling to the Mundane. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

But that has no bearing whatsoever on the OPs post asking if aid sorcery could give mundanes counterspelling, which it cannot.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

But that has no bearing whatsoever on the OPs post asking if aid sorcery could give mundanes counterspelling, which it cannot.

The fact that he phrased it a bit awkwardly notwithstanding, A Loaned Spirit can indeed provide counterspelling IF the Spirit has such abilities. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Psikerlord]

Thanks all, yeah I guess the best way to fix the original spirits is to add magical guard as an optional power for them...

[Neraph]

However, if the Spirit has Magical Guard/Counterspelling, then he COULD INDEED provide counterspelling to the Mundane. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Yes, but it would be a function of the spirit itself rather than the spirit adding to a skillcheck for the person to do to himself.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Yes, but it would be a function of the spirit itself rather than the spirit adding to a skillcheck for the person to do to himself.

Well of Course, that is how it works...
However, The protected person is the one that rolls the Counterspelling dice, unless the counterspelling is covering a group... So it really is semantics at this point. The Spirit is adding Counterspelling Dice to the Zero Dice of counterspelling that the mundane person is rolling for defense. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Neraph]

I don't think so. In the case of Aid Sorcery the spirit is adding it to the mundane for the mundane's skillcheck, whereas in the case for Magical Guard the spirit is adding to the mundane's spell resistance tests.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I don't think so. In the case of Aid Sorcery the spirit is adding it to the mundane for the mundane's skillcheck, whereas in the case for Magical Guard the spirit is adding to the mundane's spell resistance tests.

Except you cannot Aid Sorcery to someone who does not have Sorcery. The whole point of the question was whether a spirit could Counterspell for a Mundane on a loaned service. As I indicated, the OP's question could have been worded a bit more clearly, but I was under the impression it was for the purpose of Counrterspelling. Afterall, a Mundane cannot use Sorcery At All. Semantics, as I said.

No worries though, Neraph, it seems like we are on the same page in the end. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)