Defiance Ex Shocker, Small Mod Firing Selection Change? Options

[mmmkay]

Is it possible for the defiance ex shocker (pg. 316 SR4a) to undergo a Firing Selection Change (pg. 149, 151 Arsenal)? If not, why and what are the limitations of firing selection change more explicitly than "no exotic ammunition or unusual loading mechanisms" (like list the unusual ones)? If so, then what is your most pimped out defiance ex shocker and would it be possible to inspect the taser to determine that it is no longer unrestricted?

[Mäx]

I would say definedly no, as it pretty much covered by both of those limitations.
Just get a second one to circumvent the limitations of SS firing mode (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[Elfenlied]

I'd say sure, go for it.

[Yerameyahu]

Why aren't you just using a Crusader with SnS? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Mäx]

Why aren't you just using a Crusader with SnS? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

because it's not completdly unresricted piece like the tasers are.

[Yerameyahu]

Not with Firing Selection, it's not.

[mmmkay]

Not with Firing Selection, it's not.

but who'd be the wiser?

jeez guys I had a sequence of questions

what are the unusual loading mechanisms? what counts as exotic ammo?

[Summerstorm]

Unsusal loading: anything but clips and mags
Exotic: anything but standard bullets (as the possible type)

That's how i see it. Clean and simple.

[Yerameyahu]

Ditto. 'If you have to ask, it's exotic/unusual.'

[mmmkay]

Unsusal loading: anything but clips and mags
Exotic: anything but standard bullets (as the possible type)

That's how i see it. Clean and simple.

Well the Defiance Ex Shocker has it's taser darts stored in an internal magazine. Mags are apparently usual, so I guess the issue is that darts are exotic. I wouldn't use the words exotic to describe darts, whereas I would use the word exotic to describe pain inducer ammo. If it's listed under a normal ammo list I wouldn't say it's exotic, whereas the pain inducer has "special" ammo (literally listed as special). Additionally tasers are not listed under any exotic heading, whereas flamethrowers first instance are listed under exotic weapons in Arsenal.

Well anyways, I've half convinced myself of this being reasonable. I've scoured Arsenal, but I'm interested in finding out how easy it is to perceive certain internal weapon modifications (for instance small mod firing selection change).

[Yerameyahu]

Hehe, you shouldn't have to convince yourself. That's called rationalization, you do it when you *want* to believe something you *know* is wrong.

[suoq]

but who'd be the wiser?

jeez guys I had a sequence of questions

what are the unusual loading mechanisms? what counts as exotic ammo?

1) Whatever we have, it's a house rule, since RAW is vague.
2) And if you're going to ask "who'd be the wiser" then you're going to argue with our houserules.

So, why are you asking?

Note: I find it perfectly reasonable that:
1) A teaser is an electronic device.
2) So it's on your PAN, even if you don't have a smartlink
3) And in many areas your commlink is on active.
4) So everything on your PAN is readable by the authorities in those areas.
5) So you either have to be doing some electronic "lying" about your gun (which being a Shadowrunner is par for the course) or they know the Shocker ain't standard.

[mmmkay]

Why aren't you just using a Crusader with SnS? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

This is a thought experiment. If it is possible to use weapons that appear unrestricted then that'd be kinda cool. Unfortunately SS is kinda limiting. Also the Crusader is comparatively more noticeable.

Not with Firing Selection, it's not.

If you read my post you would be aware that I do not know how obvious an unrestricted item with a restricted modification is.

Ditto. 'If you have to ask, it's exotic/unusual.'

That is not the only question I am asking. See my previous post on the reasoning behind why the loading mechanism is just fine, but the ammo may or may not be (by example I would say they are not, by concept I would say they are not, but I have some doubts because a bullet is not a taser dart and 95% of Arsenal involves bullets).

Hehe, you shouldn't have to convince yourself. That's called rationalization, you do it when you *want* to believe something you *know* is wrong.

Hehe, and this post is proof you are a troll. I convince myself that the loading mechanism is fine, but did not completely convince myself that the ammo is fine. Thus using the term half convinced was quite literal.

2) And if you're going to ask "who'd be the wiser" then you're going to argue with our houserules.

I don't know what I've done to incur dumpshocks' wrath today, but I find it offensive that two people who I do not know are making claims about my persona. Suoq you for the most part seem to be a reasonable non-troll. If I say something like "but who'd be the wiser?", which was short hand for a question I was interested in before, don't believe I'm trying to sneak cookies from the cookie jar. I literally am interested in knowing how people would figure such things out. Can you inspect a taser and SEE the change. Can you scan PANS and determine it that way. That kind of thing. What are the options. I don't know and I'm literally trying to find out.

[Yerameyahu]

mmmkay, not all of my comments are directed at you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Two of those were for Mäx and Summerstorm. It's *our* thread.

As for the 'troll' bit, I can't see how the fraction of convincing (literal or otherwise) is relevant to my comment. I said that you shouldn't have to convince yourself, period. It's a general rule. No one said anything about your 'persona', and I really doubt anyone cares.

Hacking into someone's PAN to find out if their taser has SA mode seems… excessive. Secure, Active-mode zones might require that you offer up that access and info 'for free', of course (as suoq explained). There are no real rules for visually detecting weapon mods; the GM should do things that are reasonable, but who knows what that means for a taser? Detailed inspection (possibly involving Armorer skill) could certainly detect most modifications.

Restricted-legality items are basically ignorable anyway, so I'm not sure why anyone would care—only F matters. If you're trying to be subtle, the mega-taser is already a clue for whoever's looking. You can claim it's for self-defense, sure, but so are guns and things. In my games, that's just splitting hairs. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[suoq]

Can you inspect a taser and SEE the change. Can you scan PANS and determine it that way. That kind of thing. What are the options. I don't know and I'm literally trying to find out.

The problem is that you want a definite consensus on an opinion and you're willing to insult people whose answers you don't like.

As far as my personal rules on inspecting a taser and seeing the change, my question is "How the heck do they get 4 shots in a TASER in the first place?" I have no clue HOW a Shadowrun taser works. Maybe it has 4 cartridges in a row on the front. I don't know. Then there's a question of current down the wires. If you were firing in burst mode would you need a power supply that sent power down ALL the lines at the same time? Would that be a noticeable change? When the next cartridge is loaded, does it toss the wires for the previous cartridge, making burst fire impossible without major modifications. (Shooting someone and then disconnecting the unit before frying them is not effective....)

Note that this lack of detail is commonplace. For example, the modification rules (PG 128 Arsenal) talk about "re-chambering a pistol to take a different caliber" which makes no sense from a RAW standpoint since caliber only exists in fluff and house rules. Clearly, in-fluff, caliber exists, but there is no RAW reason to change the caliber of a weapon, ever.

Edit: Just learned something. http://www.taserx3.com/ has multi-shot tasers. 3 shots, rotates the pulses across the cartridge bays at 45 times a second. Cool. You can decide for yourself if you should be able to burst fire such a device.

[Traul]

3) And in many areas your commlink is on active.
4) So everything on your PAN is readable by the authorities in those areas.

I don't see the link here. An active commlink broadcats your SIN and some other information if you want to, but I don't see why it should give access to your peripherals.

[Yerameyahu]

It does if they require it, that's all. Some do. Most runners don't hang out in the 1984 areas in the first place.

[Blitz66]

While I don't think there's rules or anything saying what info is public in Active Mode, I don't think it includes "what have you got in your pockets?" I don't think that's information a lot of people want to share with complete strangers. Although, there are social networking friend request forums in today's world. Maybe I'm underestimating people's desire for attention.

[suoq]

I don't see the link here. An active commlink broadcats your SIN and some other information if you want to, but I don't see why it should give access to your peripherals.

SR4A Pg 223

You give permission for anyone to connect to your commlink and see what is on it.

Unwired, pg 48 talks about Peripheral nodes and slaving. It also has a note about them not getting the -6 that I never noticed before. Interesting. That rules suddenly makes skinlink attractive to me again.I may need to get some work done on my character's gear.

While I agree with what everyone above is saying and it make sense for a house rule, I can't read the line I quoted as anything other than open access to the PAN. If my GM asks if my gun is on my public PAN, I'm going to have to say "No" because my gun is on my hidden commlink, not the public fake ID commlink and if that gets me hassled by the cops for carrying something that isn't being broadcasted, well, that's to be expected.

Again, like everything else in this discussion, it's your interpretation that wins because the RAW are horrifyingly vague.

[Traul]

OK, I'm going to build AR clothing made of thousands of RFID tags woven together. You asked for an Active PAN, you got it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

On a side note, the penile implant suddenly got less appealing. Who wants to cross the airport with a flashing "I have a fake dong!" sign? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif)

I think a good middle ground would be to require any R items to be broadcast in high secure areas, like an open carry policy. The penile implant was a funny example, but you really don't want to broadcast your pacemaker's Access ID...

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

On a side note, the penile implant suddenly got less appealing. Who wants to cross the airport with a flashing "I have a fake dong!" sign? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif)

But WHY would you have it assigned to your PAN? I wouldn't.

[Tanegar]

Note that this lack of detail is commonplace. For example, the modification rules (PG 128 Arsenal) talk about "re-chambering a pistol to take a different caliber" which makes no sense from a RAW standpoint since caliber only exists in fluff and house rules. Clearly, in-fluff, caliber exists, but there is no RAW reason to change the caliber of a weapon, ever.

How about re-chambering a hold-out to take heavy pistol ammo? It still uses hold-out range brackets, but does 5P damage rather than 4P. Maybe you could even make it take a rifle cartridge: how does a highly concealable 7P firearm sound?

[suoq]

How about re-chambering a hold-out to take heavy pistol ammo? It still uses hold-out range brackets, but does 5P damage rather than 4P. Maybe you could even make it take a rifle cartridge: how does a highly concealable 7P firearm sound?

As far as I can see, by RAW, changing the ammo size doesn't change damage. It's a great houserule, but that's it. If I was the GM, I'd be asking you to explain how the magazine was going to work with the new ammo size.

(Note, the rule that says the two use different ammo is on pg 323 SR4A.)

[Traul]

But WHY would you have it assigned to your PAN? I wouldn't.

I guess if the law requires all wireless devices to be Active, it also requires all wireless-enabled devices to have the wifi on. Lawmakers are not that stupid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I guess if the law requires all wireless devices to be Active, it also requires all wireless-enabled devices to have the wifi on. Lawmakers are not that stupid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

No, the Law requires you to transmit your SIN (Identity) in those places that require Active Mode, NOT all your wireless capable devices, nor your entire PAN. If you choopse to do so, well, that is your choice, not the law. The vagaries of Social Networking make it nice to have that accessible for networking purposes, but it is NOT a requirement.