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[CrowOfPyke]

I have never been big on playing Mages. But I figure I would give one a try for SRM.

I am looking at the Archetype build of the Combat Mage.... Any reason why I want Mage Sight Goggles over regular goggles?

[Yerameyahu]

It depends on what you're doing with them. Goggles are for all normal tasks, Mage Sight refers to fiber-optics that preserve the mystic LOS requirement.

[Stahlseele]

meaning you stand behind a corner, just poke your eye-stems around and go about zapping targets while in full cover . .

[KarmaInferno]

They do impose a -3 dice pool penalty to magical actions channeled through them , though, so you'll need to account for that.



-k

[Dakka Dakka]

Goggles are goggles plain and simple. Mage sight goggles are basically an endoscope attached to goggles. So different tools for different jobs.

[Glyph]

Mage sight goggles give you an up to 30 meter-long rope that you can move, and see/cast spells through. They are a completely different thing than normal goggles.

[CrowOfPyke]

Got it.

Cowardly, covertly, sneaky: mage sight goggles
General purpose: goggles

Thanks!

[PeteThe1]

Mage sight goggles give you an up to 30 meter-long rope that you can move, and see/cast spells through. They are a completely different thing than normal goggles.

Of course you're carrying around 30m of fiber-optic cable and you need someone to snake it around the corner for you. Or Magic Fingers it. A really short cable would be great for an FRT team doing a breach though; snake the cable under the door, Stunball everyone in the room.

[Glyph]

No - it's myomeric rope. You electronically control it, and it can move itself. That's why it's so useful.

[Stahlseele]

basically, you sit down, unroll, tell your wire to sneak under the doors one by one, cast spells as needed and get up when you're done.
just one tip for the future: don't throw elemental combat spells.

[suoq]

Got it.

Cowardly, covertly, sneaky: mage sight goggles
General purpose: goggles

Thanks!

Note page 183 SR4A

The next thing a magician must do when casting a spell is choose her target(s). A metahuman spellcaster can target anyone or anything she can see directly with her natural vision. Physical cyber- or bioenhancements paid for with Essence can be used to spot targets, but any technological visual aids that substitute themselves for the character’s own visual senses—cameras, electronic binoculars, Matrix feeds, etc.—cannot be used.

and page 332 SR4A

These optical aids have many uses, one of which is enabling a magician to obtain optical (non-electronic) line of sight for spellcasting from cover. Spellcasting targeted through optics this way suffers a –3 dice pool modifier. These devices cannot take vision enhancements.

So... Mage sight goggles = Can be cast through. Regular Goggles = Can't be cast through.

I have no clue why there isn't a vehicle mod for mage sight goggles. There should be. Or maybe there's one and I missed it.

[Fatum]

So... Mage sight goggles = Can be cast through. Regular Goggles = Can't be cast through.

Well, you can cast while wearing goggles, it's just that you won't be able to cast targeting the objects you can only detect with the enhanced senses they provide.
And that's basically number 1 reason to get cybereyes for mages, as repeatedly discussed.

[Stahlseele]

you don't really need one.
make some tiny little holes to stick your wire through and call it a day.
or simply install several sets of magesight goggles in fixed positions.
kinda like the periscope of a submarine for example. only you look through differen view-ports . .

[Fatum]

Why this and not just polarized windows you can look through just like that?

[Stahlseele]

Because you usually/generally don't want any weak spots in your armor, i'd guess.
This is more for things like submarines and military vehicles like tanks and the such.
In normal "civillian" cars? sure, windows all the way . .

[suoq]

Why this and not just polarized windows you can look through just like that?

Because a mage who can't be seen doesn't easily get a 50 cal lobotomy.

And enhanced Rigger Cocoon with built in Mage Sight Goggles in the back of Citymaster strikes me as happy pink mohawk time. Why hasn't Longbowrocks mentioned this before, or did I miss it?

[Stahlseele]

probably because he is more into active defense, than passive . .

[Blitz66]

probably because he is more into active defense, than passive . .

I thought he also had a hate-on for Awakened. Mage goggles would therefore be of limited utility.

[Stahlseele]

that can be too . .
and i fully understand and support that hate for awakened stuff . .
never got to like them either myself . .

[Glyph]

Well, you can cast while wearing goggles, it's just that you won't be able to cast targeting the objects you can only detect with the enhanced senses they provide.
And that's basically number 1 reason to get cybereyes for mages, as repeatedly discussed.

Some of the visual enhancements that you can get with goggles can be useful to a mage. It is only when they substitute themselves for a mage's senses that they are unusable. Things like visual enhancement, low-light vision, or optical magnification are fine. It's things like thermographic vision or ultrasound that can't be used for targetting. This is because they don't simply enhance your existing vision, but show you a computer-generated representation that replaces your normal vision.

[Yerameyahu]

I'm pretty sure that low light counts the same as thermo, and I'd be surprised if there was no debate over visual enhancement (if you're using it cast spells with a bonus, anyway).

[Glyph]

It depends on how those enhancements work - they don't have quite enough fluff in the descriptions to make more than an individual judgement call on them. Visual enhancement wouldn't give a bonus to spellcasting, though. It would only give a bonus to your perception test, to see if you can acquire the target.

[suoq]

Note: Binoculars are the only item in the Visual Sensors and Imaging Devices section (332 SR4a) that state they come in an optical version. How you interpret that is your own problem.

[Yerameyahu]

I agree. It's certainly vague. As long as it's not helping the spellcasting, I'm fine with it myself. However… *does* anyone require perception tests for spellcasting? It has infinite range, and it didn't think there were really rules for the limits of natural vision. The spellcasting test itself is penalized by Visibility, and LOS is required, but that's as far as I've heard. :/

As for low light, I can also see it going either way… but it's better for consistency and balance if all visions are similarly barred. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Glyph]

It depends on whether the GM makes the characters make perception tests for combat or not - they might not spot that sniper on the roof, or that guy crouched behind a car, or the squad of reinforcements coming up behind them. You don't need perception tests when the enemy is right in front of you, but a lot of times, you will need to successfully spot someone before you can even think about doing anything to them.

So you don't need any special perception roll for the spellcasting itself, but like any other character, there will be times when perception tests are called for.