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> Heavy Weapons Guy, Emphasis plural?
Loch
post Aug 16 2011, 05:23 AM
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Just a brain fart for a character idea bouncing around. Let's say you have a heavy weapons troll (or heavy weapons augmented ork) who has enough RC stacked up to fire a minigun on full burst with no recoil penalty. In order to get all the RC you basically need to pad out the last few points with high Strength (after gyromount and assorted mods/attachments). But what if he didn't JUST carry a minigun? What about a character who basically has a truck full of big guns? What would be some other good weapons to include besides Natascha?

Or is this a dumb idea and I should focus my energies on giving him other abilities besides shooting a big gun really well?
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Yerameyahu
post Aug 16 2011, 05:30 AM
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Yeah, there's no great point in just having a big machine gun. There are lots easier ways to do that. The utility of the Heavy Weapons skill is that you get MGs, GLs, and rockets (depends on how sane your scatter rules are).

And yes, specializing too much on firing a big, obvious gun is maybe a not-fun idea. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) It limits your play options.
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PeteThe1
post Aug 16 2011, 05:40 AM
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You can turn this into a character with lots of fun. Depending on background, where he learned to use those big guns, he may have some other skills that are equally scary and specifically complementary. Like when his underbarrel weapon is a laser designator, and the rigger has a mortar a few blocks away. Or maybe team with a medic mage with an ubercharge Armor spell?
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CanRay
post Aug 16 2011, 05:44 AM
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Oh, come on, everyone can use a Panther Assault Cannon! Even Wimpy Hackers!

...

Named Bull. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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Neurosis
post Aug 16 2011, 05:47 AM
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QUOTE
And yes, specializing too much on firing a big, obvious gun is maybe a not-fun idea.


There is a grenade launcher that is technically a pistol, don't forget. : )
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Yerameyahu
post Aug 16 2011, 05:50 AM
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Ugh, don't remind anyone. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Not that it's a problem, because it's clearly under the Grenade Launcher/etc. section, explicitly preceded by a section saying you use Heavy Weapons skill for all of them. If a player tries to BS using Pistol skill with it, I let it shoot nano-grenades. Which coincidentally do nano-amounts of damage. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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Dakka Dakka
post Aug 16 2011, 06:22 AM
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Why use a minigun at all? While the damage is nice the weapon has all sorts of drawbacks that make it a vehicle weapon at best:
  • It takes a simple Action to get it to speed, meaning it can only fire in your second action phase.
  • as soon as the motor starts you will become a target, so no surprise attacks
  • Unless you get a very high dice pool suppressive fire isn't that great. Chances are people will simply dodge and shoot back. That's even without the "loophole" of dropping prone and shooting back
  • Full bursts only, so no called shots
  • Lots of investment and the need for optional rules to remove recoil.
  • Without GM Fiat you can only get a Minigun based on an LMG.

Just take a regular machine gun, slap on a Gas vent 3, Shock Pad and a Heavy Barrel and put it in a Gyromount and even the weakest character can fire full bursts (and all other firing modes) - while running without any modifiers. You can even add BF or SA firing mode to satisfy the RAW for Called Shots. All this can be done at CharGen with an MMG for 13150 or under 3 BP.
Just putting the White Knight into a gyromount will be even cheaper.

@Yerameyahu: I don't think he wanted to use the pistols skill. I think he wanted to point out that not all "heavy" weapons are large and unconcealable. If the former is the case, as a GM I would have to show him my proficiency with Exotic Melee Weapon (rolled up newspaper)
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Medicineman
post Aug 16 2011, 06:41 AM
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Full bursts only, so no called shots

No called Shots with Full Burst ??
It might be RAI but is it RAW ?
Can You give a Page reference (Preferebly in German (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) or maybe a PM ?)

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The Jopp
post Aug 16 2011, 06:53 AM
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Why not go the silly route?

Take a rigger.
Give him Gunnery (Remote Control)
Add a pilot rating to all your heavy weapons
Add the mobility mod (crawling)

Now the rigger can use the gunnery skill while tooting around a lot of heavy weapons.

...for some reason I DO see some GM intervention in the above area... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

*EDIT*
Might just need Crawler Drone [Gun] as a specialization otherwise and order the drone pilot to fire.
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PeteThe1
post Aug 16 2011, 07:05 AM
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QUOTE (The Jopp @ Aug 15 2011, 11:53 PM) *
Why not go the silly route?

Take a rigger.
Give him Gunnery (Remote Control)
Add a pilot rating to all your heavy weapons
Add the mobility mod (crawling)

Now the rigger can use the gunnery skill while tooting around a lot of heavy weapons.

...for some reason I DO see some GM intervention in the above area... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

*EDIT*
Might just need Crawler Drone [Gun] as a specialization otherwise and order the drone pilot to fire.

Heck, just mount some gun turrets on a personal mobility device. Hot ASIST, talk through your commlink. You too can be "Stephen Hawking: The Revenge"
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TheOOB
post Aug 16 2011, 09:06 AM
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Remote control isn't listed as a valid specialty for gunnery, and I'd question the logic of an GM who would allow it
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scarius
post Aug 16 2011, 10:28 AM
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So you just put the heavy weapons on a walker, slave it to you comlink, walk behind it shooting it your self.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Aug 16 2011, 01:14 PM
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QUOTE (TheOOB @ Aug 16 2011, 03:06 AM) *
Remote control isn't listed as a valid specialty for gunnery, and I'd question the logic of an GM who would allow it


There are an unlimited number of viable specialties. The ones listed are not the only ones possible. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
Whether the above specialty is sane is another issue entirely. But it would be valid.
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Dakka Dakka
post Aug 16 2011, 01:28 PM
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QUOTE (TheOOB @ Aug 16 2011, 11:06 AM) *
Remote control isn't listed as a valid specialty for gunnery, and I'd question the logic of an GM who would allow it
True, but if you limit yourself to one type of heavy weapons, you can achieve the same thing


QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Aug 16 2011, 03:14 PM) *
There are an unlimited number of viable specialties. The ones listed are not the only ones possible. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
Whether the above specialty is sane is another issue entirely. But it would be valid.
Actually, no. By strict RAW, the list of specialties is exhaustive unless the list has an etc. or similar opening wording. The BBB only allows the creation of new skills with specialization not new specializations to existing skills. I doubt it is RAI but that's what the authors wrote.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Aug 16 2011, 01:35 PM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Aug 16 2011, 07:28 AM) *
Actually, no. By strict RAW, the list of specialties is exhaustive unless the list has an etc. or similar opening wording. The BBB only allows the creation of new skills with specialization not new specializations to existing skills. I doubt it is RAI but that's what the authors wrote.


Which the FAQ Clarifies (and does so without actually changing the rules, like a Good FAQ should)... Sooooo... Unlimited Specialties.
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HunterHerne
post Aug 16 2011, 01:55 PM
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QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Aug 16 2011, 10:35 AM) *
Which the FAQ Clarifies (and does so without actually changing the rules, like a Good FAQ should)... Sooooo... Unlimited Specialties.


Baring sanity checks by the GM.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Aug 16 2011, 01:59 PM
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QUOTE (HunterHerne @ Aug 16 2011, 07:55 AM) *
Baring sanity checks by the GM.


Baring Sanity Checks by the GM, Of Course... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Miri
post Aug 16 2011, 02:06 PM
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QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Aug 16 2011, 07:59 AM) *
Baring Sanity Checks by the GM, Of Course... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


If you GM is having to roll Sanity Checks.. I don't think you are playing Shadowrun... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/indifferent.gif)
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Seerow
post Aug 16 2011, 02:06 PM
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QUOTE (Medicineman @ Aug 16 2011, 06:41 AM) *
Full bursts only, so no called shots

No called Shots with Full Burst ??
It might be RAI but is it RAW ?
Can You give a Page reference (Preferebly in German (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) or maybe a PM ?)

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QUOTE ('SR4A pg 161')
A character can only make a called shot with weapons that fire in single-shot, semi auto, and burst-fire modes, as well as melee weapons



So yeah, a weapon being fired in full auto can't make a called shot.
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Yerameyahu
post Aug 16 2011, 02:15 PM
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Which pretty much makes sense.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Aug 16 2011, 02:32 PM
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QUOTE (Miri @ Aug 16 2011, 08:06 AM) *
If you GM is having to roll Sanity Checks.. I don't think you are playing Shadowrun... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/indifferent.gif)


Naah, you are missing the point.... The Sanity Checks are a Rolled Up Newspaper to the offending Player's head. Good for the GM, and a lesson for the Player. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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HunterHerne
post Aug 16 2011, 02:33 PM
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QUOTE (Miri @ Aug 16 2011, 11:06 AM) *
If you GM is having to roll Sanity Checks.. I don't think you are playing Shadowrun... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/indifferent.gif)


Haha. Well, not actual dice checks, just checking to make sure you aren`t trying anything to damage his (likely fragile) sanity.
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HunterHerne
post Aug 16 2011, 02:34 PM
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QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Aug 16 2011, 11:32 AM) *
Naah, you are missing the point.... The Sanity Checks are a Rolled Up Newspaper to the offending Player's head. Good for the GM, and a lesson for the Player. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This too.
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TP13
post Aug 16 2011, 02:37 PM
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For miniguns there is an MMG one in the arsenal german content. Also the Ballista missile launcher is a backpack so you can have it on and use your arms to carry other heavy weapons.
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toturi
post Aug 16 2011, 02:45 PM
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QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Aug 16 2011, 10:32 PM) *
Naah, you are missing the point.... The Sanity Checks are a Rolled Up Newspaper to the offending Player's head. Good for the GM, and a lesson for the Player. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Oh no, the sanity checks are said newspaper to the offending GM's head, wielded in turn by his players (plural). Good for the GM, happy fun time for the players. Remember there are often more players than there are GMs.
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