Simulating High Altitude Drone Strikes, Death from above Options

[CanRay]

Also really hard to do ballistics on a laser burn.

[Miri]

Also really hard to do ballistics on a laser burn.

Depends on how deep the hole is.. then just use the cameras in the area to recreate how he was standing.. then draw a straight line.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

So, if you as a GM decide that the PCs have made someone angry enough, the PCs die. Nothing they can really do about it at that point.

Sounds like everyone will be enjoying it.

Please understand: from IC standpoint, it's very reasonable what you propose. You can certainly assassinate people (PCs) that way. Just like sniping; it's obviously doable. The rules aren't a problem, it's realistic, all that's fine.

But when is it ever fun OOC?

Indeed. Instant Death is never fun.

The one time we were faced with such a situation, a lot of people died (Another runner team we were meeting with) and the Full Borg Bodyguard took a beating (My temporary character, due to my Primary having been incarcerated and not yet escaped), as everyone tried to disengange. Several of the other characters also were injured, But I suffered teh brunt of the damage. But it was fun. We were being sniped from out at about 800 meters or so. Even through the windows and Walls people were dying. I even took a round IN the Freakin' Elevator as we were escaping. I took 14 of my 19 Physical Boxes and 6 of my Stun Boxes in damage before we got out of that situation. Was a hell of a lot of fun, though. And it really brought home the resources of a Megacorp when they choose to execute its assets, without causing a lot of collateral damage in the process.

And the characters STILL went through with the Operation on the Zero Zone 6 months later.

What a great conclusion to Emergence that was.

[AppliedCheese]

I tend to think of it as something that would not come out of the blue. Well, the actual missiles will, but the fact that its happening shouldn't. And while there's no amount of dice that will save them if the strike ever happens, smart play should if you set it up right.

A fixer tells you that you are on the shit list. You are being hunted. Your KE contact says he saw a network diagram with Karl Kombatmage in the middle and an "associated" line with someone who sounds like you on the end in the "Kinetic Peace Enforcement" offices the other day. If you have lowlight vision on, you notice a two second IR laser sparkle from the sky that snaps off shortly thereafter, if you back track it with vision aug and mag, you can just make out a black dot that crosses the moon before it slips into darkness. Maybe right before one of your contacts drops off the net, he flat out lets you know that your on the strike list. Your next Mr. J meet is set up in a wooden barn out in the fields, a good chunk away from anything valuable, that is coincidentally owned by a shell company agricultural front of the people you pissed off. If your particularly forgiving, maybe the first time, the heimdall malfunctions and just leaves a large unexploded warhead in the ground 5 meters away. Basically, let the players know its out there and THEN if they choose to ignore it, its on them.

Compared to a GM sniper, the players have dozens of ways to avoid a drone strike. They can use civilians as shields, make sure they are crossing territorialities, stay under top cover except for short bursts, make sure they aren't using recognizable vehicles, hug targets worth more than you, etc.

It is not a tool for pink mohawk. It is a tool for mirror shades campaigns to add another level of complexity during those manhunt periods. A way to inspire fear in the bullet proof sammy and the super stunball mage. More than anything, just knowing its out there is a deterrent. A reminder in black-trenchcoat land of why you have to be black trenchcoat, while still providing an escape route not tied to dice. The final tipping point when someone says "well, who cares if they send a HTR team, we'll takem."

On which note, imagine a red samurai squad backed up by these. Or even how negotiations might go if, as you stare outside into the barricades, the negotiator informs you he has recieved authorization for highly kinetic solutions if you don't give up. Time to got to plan B for exfil.

[Irion]

As with everything it depends on how you plan it. Rocks fall, everyone dies is never fun.
But trying to escape a drone up high can be.

[suoq]

I'm fascinated by the thought that somewhere there's a GM planning the killing of most of the player characters and justifying it by explaining that it's a natural reaction by the corps to the players having just completed the mission the GM wrote for them.

At least Things To Do In Denver When You're Dead, had Mister Shhh. (and required the players to really, really, screw up the mission)

[Miri]

This is where the GM needs to learn how to say.. " F it.. Ninjas attack." and deliver the blunt object message to the PCs that just maybe... they are doing something that might not be a very good idea.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

This is where the GM needs to learn how to say.. " F it.. Ninjas attack." and deliver the blunt object message to the PCs that just maybe... they are doing something that might not be a very good idea.

All in retaliation for completeing the mission given to them by the Johnson? Seems pretty harsh to me. I may have to go back and retrace this thread a bit.

EDIT: Nope. Looks like the OP just wants to make a point that success sometimes ends in death.

[Miri]

All in retaliation for completeing the mission given to them by the Johnson? Seems pretty harsh to me. I may have to go back and retrace this thread a bit.

EDIT: Nope. Looks like the OP just wants to make a point that success sometimes ends in death.

So how DOES one get really successful in this business without having a mega decide it is worth it to drop a 5 tons of metal on your head from orbit?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

So how DOES one get really successful in this business without having a mega decide it is worth it to drop a 5 tons of metal on your head from orbit?

Don't play in the OP's game?

Honestly, Mega's should not really have a vested interest in the Middle men once they have gotten away (Of course, Stopping them on their property is perfectly fine). That is WHY Shadowrunners actually thrive in a world where you would not expect them to. The Corps know that the 'Runners do not have whatever it is that they took anymore (it is likely already in the contracting agents hands), and you do not, generally, eliminate a potential asset. After all, tehy might use you to recover the item.

Only when you become a liability, or they need to make an example, will the Megacorps spend significant time and resources tracking you down and eliminating you. Or when you make it Personal.

[Miri]

Only when you become a liability, or they need to make an example, will the Megacorps spend significant time and resources tracking you down and eliminating you. Or when you make it Personal.

Right, so when the J offers you the wetworks job on a Mega's CEO daughter.. make damn good and sure you do it quietly and deniable.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Right, so when the J offers you the wetworks job on a Mega's CEO daughter.. make damn good and sure you do it quietly and deniable.

Yep, that goes without saying... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[AppliedCheese]

All in retaliation for completeing the mission given to them by the Johnson? Seems pretty harsh to me. I may have to go back and retrace this thread a bit.

EDIT: Nope. Looks like the OP just wants to make a point that success sometimes ends in death.

To re-iterate: Its not intended as a pee-pee smack to be used incessantly every time you complete a mission. 99% of all runs, performed in black trenchcoat style, will never get the hierarchy peeved enough to go through the ass pain of deconflicting the requirements to hit you by fluff. The organizational energy required, combined with "companies won't waste effort on runners unless they really piss them off" means you should be able to be successful without the hammer.

Its the hammer that makes you act a little more discretely, cover your tracks a little bit better, and makes getting out of dodge that much harder. Yes, it will slaughter a runner team. If they're dumb enough to let it, and dumb enough to take actions they know are going to provoke a response without cleaning their traces - if you think they're going to send a cyberzombie after you, you should make sure you are drone-safe as well. And yeah, if you stay in Seattle after hitting a zero zone in a black trenchcoat campaign without completely rewriting your identity, you deserve unforgiving death.

For double crosses, it just adds one more factor to make you up the professionalism. Would you agree to walk to the 50 yard line of an abandoned football field surrounded by 4 story apartments in a bad neighborhood to hand over the macguffin or do an inital meet? Hell no, because your gut is telling you Mr. J has someone staring down a barret loaded with APDS right now. There is no way that can end well. So, nwo you just have to add, "make sure meet locations are within collateral damage distances of civilians, valuable infrastructure, multiple territories, or preferably all of the above."

And, as one poster mentioned, its not like players can't do this

As I said, not for the pink mohawk of heart. But if you want to up the level of black trenchcoat, its a useful tool I think.

[PeteThe1]

I'm surprised that with all the talk of missle strikes and high-altitude surveillance, nobody has mentioned the advantage of loiter-time contemporary drones have compared to SR. For runners, one drone getting 30 hours of video surveillance of an isolated corp facility, or being able to tail someone from 10 km up without having to worry aboue being spotted, and no matter how far they're driving, would make those parts of legwork trivially easy. Listed drones seem to generally be relatively low-altitude and have only a few hours fuel, mostly limiting them to tactical deployments. But I think of all the riggers I've played, and how much I'd have loved a drone that could stay on station for so long, and give me so much information.

For the corps using these things, even skipping TPK missile nastiness, how useful would that loiter-time be? Keep one over your secret facility at all times, see those infiltrators on themograph a kilometer before they touch your fence, locate their getaway vehicle however far away they hid it, watch them coming in from multiple directions at once and have your sec guys waiting. Or tail them to their meet afterwards, have a team a block away ready to pick up Mr Johnson and ask who he works for. Forget missiles, its death by information.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I'm surprised that with all the talk of missle strikes and high-altitude surveillance, nobody has mentioned the advantage of loiter-time contemporary drones have compared to SR. For runners, one drone getting 30 hours of video surveillance of an isolated corp facility, or being able to tail someone from 10 km up without having to worry aboue being spotted, and no matter how far they're driving, would make those parts of legwork trivially easy. Listed drones seem to generally be relatively low-altitude and have only a few hours fuel, mostly limiting them to tactical deployments. But I think of all the riggers I've played, and how much I'd have loved a drone that could stay on station for so long, and give me so much information.

For the corps using these things, even skipping TPK missile nastiness, how useful would that loiter-time be? Keep one over your secret facility at all times, see those infiltrators on themograph a kilometer before they touch your fence, locate their getaway vehicle however far away they hid it, watch them coming in from multiple directions at once and have your sec guys waiting. Or tail them to their meet afterwards, have a team a block away ready to pick up Mr Johnson and ask who he works for. Forget missiles, its death by information.

30 Hour loiter times are not all that hard to come by actually. Takes 4 Slots for 4 extra fuel "tanks" assuming a body of at least 4. This gives 30 hours all by itself, not to mention that there are other alternatives.

Lets also not forget that the tech of the 2070's does not incluide all the tech we have today. Maybe that 30 hour loiter time is part of the lost tech that has yet to be recovered.

AS for ensuring 24/7/365 Coverage of drones. It is not really all that hard to accomplish in Shadowrun, and for fairly cheap as well. Remember, any Lighter than Air vehicle has a Duration of 60 Hours base.

[Miri]

And if you add a SunCell on that LTA, thats 5 days aloft there.

[AppliedCheese]

Lighter than air - SR reflects reality! Google PTDS or PGSS blimp.