[X] My Assistant

[Draco18s]

Oh, I totally get what you're trying to do. I'm just saying that I can't figure out how to get where you want to be without managing to hose someone (or end up with someone who invariably doesn't care).

[Tanegar]

...I think you still need to illustrate your issue better. What I get out of that post is that Runner A, who gets shot and takes some time off to heal up, is actually worse off than Runner B, who takes a crossbow bolt to the leg and keeps going. That not only makes no damn sense, it doesn't square with my previous understanding of your position (wounds should matter more and healing should be harder).

[Aerospider]

What I get out of that post is that Runner A, who gets shot and takes some time off to heal up, is actually worse off than Runner B, who takes a crossbow bolt to the leg and keeps going. That not only makes no damn sense, ...

That is and always was exactly my issue and the purpose of this thread. As you say, it makes no damn sense but is RAW nonetheless.

My apologies for any part I played in your misunderstanding up until now.

[Dreadlord]

That is and always was exactly my issue and the purpose of this thread. As you say, it makes no damn sense but is RAW nonetheless.

Hm, it seems like what you (and myself as well!) are looking for is some kind of "internal bleeding" or "infection" rule for untreated wounds and/or people who refuse to rest up and heal naturally.

Either a new mechanic such as the aforementioned BOD + EDGE, or a novel application of an existing mechanic would work, I think.

How about if you don't rest/treat wounds within the first interval for the wound type (Stun is 1 hour, Physical Damage is 1 day), it counts as an automatic critical glitch and you take a further 1D3 damage boxes? Or is that too harsh? (which I have been accused of in this thread!)

btw: I misspoke earlier, I double-checked the House Rules published to my players and I don't apply injury mods to a First Aid or Medicine roll unless the person is trying to patch themselves up, nor do I apply it twice. My game is on hiatus for the summer, and my brain has misplaced some of the facts! The mage PC in my campaign is a doctor, though, so it rarely comes up due to First Aid, Medicine, and Heal Spell used in the proper order. On top of that, they are working a long-term mission (Ghost Cartels) for a medical AA company who provides health care for a discount if needed, although the players don't trust any corp enough to make it a habit.

I DO apply injury mods to all other health rolls such as resting, which tends to make healing times feel less "videogamey", especially for heavy wounds. I am not sure if that is a House Rule, as I don't see that Resting/Natural Healing is explicitly exempt from injury mods.

[Draco18s]

I DO apply injury mods to all other health rolls such as resting, which tends to make healing times feel less "videogamey", especially for heavy wounds. I am not sure if that is a House Rule, as I don't see that Resting/Natural Healing is explicitly exempt from injury mods.

I'm pretty sure that resting-healing tests are exempt from wound modifiers, although I am AFB.

[Yerameyahu]

I'm fine with the general concept… not seeking timely care is dangerous. Why not simply require a Healing test (for the one who keeps running/ignores treatment), but the only effect is on a glitch? Now they're equal, except the non-healer doesn't gain anything.

[HunterHerne]

Perhaps I should have illustrated my issue better.

Suppose two weak characters are a little bit shot up, no more than 6 boxes. One gets his head down whilst the other decides to stay active until a better healing opportunity arises. Now the second guy has nothing to worry about if he keeps himself out of trouble - that crossbow bolt in his calf will wait. The first guy, however, is in some danger. He has a low Body rating, no medical equipment or expertise on hand, poor conditions, whatever - he has only 1 die to roll for healing. That's a 1 in 6 chance of gaining 1D3 damage as well as losing an extra day of healing. If he's rolling 2 healing dice that probability goes up to 7 in 36, as we all know. So while his mate is off galavanting about town he's just praying his sick bed doesn't kill him.

Note, I'm quite happy with the glitch rules on healing, but desire an equivalent for those who put off healing for another day.

I'm also a big fan of the severe wounds rules, but they don't cater for this concern.

Which is why you, as the GM, don't necessarily follow the glitch suggestions. The book says a glitch can be anything detrimental, and I would think, forcing your self to stand up tall and look strong, staring down the opposition (intimidation), even if a shot isn't fired, to be enough to "pull something" when the character takes a deep breath at the start of the staredown. I might give him some stun damage for a base glitch, or a box of physical for a critical glitch.

[Dreadlord]

I'm pretty sure that resting-healing tests are exempt from wound modifiers, although I am AFB.

I happen to have my SR4A PDF handy, and you are correct that the base rules do not have injury mods. On p.252, though, there is the "Slower Healing" optional rule to use injury mods for Healing Tests. I do not use the second bullet point of only rolling BOD instead of BOD * 2 (even I think that is pretty bad!)

Since the Healing Test is an Extended Test, and if you are using the cumulative -1 per roll, wouldn't that be REALLY severe? Would you end up with crippling damage that can't be healed? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/excl.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I happen to have my SR4A PDF handy, and you are correct that the base rules do not have injury mods. On p.252, though, there is the "Slower Healing" optional rule to use injury mods for Healing Tests. I do not use the second bullet point of only rolling BOD instead of BOD * 2 (even I think that is pretty bad!)

Since the Healing Test is an Extended Test, and if you are using the cumulative -1 per roll, wouldn't that be REALLY severe? Would you end up with crippling damage that can't be healed? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/excl.gif)

Healing is not really an extended test, per se. So you should never suffer the cumulative -1 to the roll.

[HunterHerne]

Healing is not really an extended test, per se. So you should never suffer the cumulative -1 to the roll.

While it is described as an extended test, I would have to agree that it shouldn't be held to the cumulative -1 penalty. My method is already gritty and dangerous enough, (body- wounds), that a cumulative penalty would completely remove healing from the game.

[Yerameyahu]

Weird pseudo-errata notwithstanding, the cumulative penalty is an *optional* rule for *some* Extended Tests, subject in all cases to the GM's judgment.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Weird pseudo-errata notwithstanding, the cumulative penalty is an *optional* rule for *some* Extended Tests, subject in all cases to the GM's judgment.

Indeed... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Aerospider]

Which is why you, as the GM, don't necessarily follow the glitch suggestions. The book says a glitch can be anything detrimental, and I would think, forcing your self to stand up tall and look strong, staring down the opposition (intimidation), even if a shot isn't fired, to be enough to "pull something" when the character takes a deep breath at the start of the staredown. I might give him some stun damage for a base glitch, or a box of physical for a critical glitch.

My fallback plan was essentially this. The slight problem with it is that if the character would have suffered a glitch anyway he's not really suffering any extra for his decision to keep running while injured.

[suoq]

My fallback plan was essentially this. The slight problem with it is that if the character would have suffered a glitch anyway he's not really suffering any extra for his decision to keep running while injured.

I may be misunderstanding something, but with a negative to his dice pool (for being injured), it seems like he either needs to reduce his activity (limit the number of times he rolls dice) or increase his chance of failing and occasionally glitching. Increasing his wounds as a result of the glitch does not seem out of line to me if that's your goal.

If he is continuing to run without resting, then it strikes me that he's going to run out of edge sooner (due to the decreased dice pool) and it seems perfectly reasonable to not refresh edge on someone who won't rest/heal/recover.

[Tanegar]

...it seems perfectly reasonable to not refresh edge on someone who won't rest/heal/recover.

Oh, now this I quite like. You can only refresh Edge if you're at full health. If this turns out to be too harsh, allow Edge refreshment with Stun damage but not Physical.

[Aerospider]

Oh, now this I quite like. You can only refresh Edge if you're at full health. If this turns out to be too harsh, allow Edge refreshment with Stun damage but not Physical.

Interesting...

[Yerameyahu]

Ooh, that is kinda compelling. On the other hand, what if they can't rest/heal? What if it's a gritty survival-type game? I guess the GM could do it only when the player is violating Wheaton's Law. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[HunterHerne]

Ooh, that is kinda compelling. On the other hand, what if they can't rest/heal? What if it's a gritty survival-type game? I guess the GM could do it only when the player is violating Wheaton's Law. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I have my own set up for that. According to the Survival rules, you can`t heal unless you are in a safe place. I say, allow the person with the best survival skill roll a Survival+Intuition (2) test (teamwork rules apply), to set up a "safe" camp. Characters can use this camp to rest and heal. If you want to make it grittier, set the maximum number of boxes healed as the net hits on the Camp test. YMMV, however.

[Yerameyahu]

Sounds good. Still, I'd worry about the possible unintended consequences of dealing with Edge refresh. That's all. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Given that Edge refresh is so much up to GM whim already, it's probably not an issue.

[HunterHerne]

Sounds good. Still, I'd worry about the possible unintended consequences of dealing with Edge refresh. That's all. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Given that Edge refresh is so much up to GM whim already, it's probably not an issue.

This I agree with as well. I generally refresh edge when I give a character a call for a new mission, or if they have do the work to get a new mission under way. Right now, my PC's are rescuing a girl from a fairly vicious gang, and they are doing it right, except using a forbidden aerial drone inside a military flight zone. The result of them doing it right, is that they found someone has a bounty on the gang leader, so mission 2, which will involve transporting the gang leader alive, will proceed shortly after mission 1. I will most likely refresh their edge, especially if they take a couple hours to rest, after they have him stored somewhere prior to delivery.

[Dreadlord]

Huh. I am already doing this, since I don't refresh Edge unless (wounded or not) the PC gets a good night's rest. There are extenuating circumstances at times (I give instant rewards sometimes such as getting a spent Edge point back for roleplaying, extreme dice rolls, etc.), but my players are now familiar with that pacing of Edge refresh, so getting them to rest, while wounded or not, is not a problem! Even Mr. Lucky the Hacker wants his spent Edge refreshed!

It has also made for some tense situations where the player realizes he has wasted his Edge too early in the mission, and now needs it to save his life or the mission! Therefore, even Mr. Lucky thinks long and hard before using his Edge. Makes it more strategic, in my opinion.

I had to do this because on character generation the players realized how important a stat Edge is, so one character has 4 Edge, two characters are at 5, and one is at 7.

[Draco18s]

Here's a thought:

When performing strenuous activity¹ with at least -1 wound penalty, roll 7 (-wounds) dice. No hits or a glitch, take 1 stun (unresisted). Crit-glitch, take 1 physical (unresisted).
If reduced to 0 or fewer dice, take an immediate 1 stun (unresisted) and add 7 dice to the dice pool and roll as above (so -2 dice would be 1 stun, roll 5 dice).

It's going to be (largely) fair to every character type (only the beefiest of troll sams having damage tracks large enough to put them at 0 dice) and instead of penalizing based on low (body, will, edge) it's harsher for continuing to do jobs with higher amounts of damage.

¹Obviously not within minutes of having received wounds. Should be rolled after first aid has been applied and the characters have the opportunity to rest.

[Yerameyahu]

I'm just saying there's no particular reason to tie Edge to rest, or to anything physical. It's luck. You can explicitly get Edge back for pulling off crazy actions, not resting. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I'm fine with the idea of no Edge while you're already 'pushing your luck' with untreated wounds, but tying it directly to *rest* seems arbitrary and contrary to the spirit of Edge.